- From: Thomas Baker <thomas.baker@bi.fhg.de>
- Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:17:25 +0100
- To: Leonard Will <L.Will@willpowerinfo.co.uk>
- Cc: SKOS <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 08:47:08PM +0000, Leonard Will wrote: > It sounds fine to me, and as nobody has raised serious objections I have > added it to the glossary at > <http://www.willpowerinfo.co.uk/glossary.htm>. I hope that is OK. I was noticing that "term" is still defined using "identify". I had suggested this be changed to "label" and thought you were agreeing (see digest below). On further reflection, however, I am still bothered by the potential for confusion between the notion of a "thesaurus term" (a lexical or natural-language label, which may _sometimes_ also be a descriptor identifying a concept) and an SKOS or Dublin Core "term" (a concept, or unit of thought, identified with a URI and labelled with natural-language "labels"). If the Glossary is to be both SKOS-compatible and thesaurus-world-compatible, this poses a tricky problem, because I'm not sure "term" itself can be defined generically enough to encompass both. However, one step in the right direction could be to avoid using "term" itself as a synonym for label (as the glossary currently does). Instead of equating "term" with "thesaurus term", one could perhaps define: thesaurus term word or phrase used as the label for a concept Thesaurus terms can be either preferred terms or non-preferred terms. or Thesaurus terms can be either preferred labels or non-preferred labels. term name, word, or phrase used as an identifier or label for a concept concept unit of thought ...Concepts exist in the mind as abstract entities independent of the words or phrases used to express them. label words or phrases associated with (or "used to express"?) an abstract entity identifier an unambiguous reference to an abstract entity within a given context Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:02:24 +0100 From: Thomas Baker <thomas.baker@bi.fhg.de> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With SKOS-compatibility in mind, one point of possible confusion catches my eye: the term "term". In the glossary, "term" is defined as a "word or phrase used to identify a concept". In SKOS, however, a "term" is a member of the SKOS vocabulary -- it is a "class or property". In SKOS, the class or property is "identified" with a URI and associated with words or phrases called "labels". Saying in the glossary that a term is a "word or phrase used to _label_ a concept" would seem to be one step closer to SKOS -- and perhaps even without sacrificing clarity, because "identity" per se is not otherwise discussed in the glossary (though the notion of a descriptor as a term which "represents" a concept could be construed to be about identification) [1]. The ambiguity about "term" is mirrored in the definition of "mapping", which talks about establishing relationships among "terms, notions or concepts" across two vocabularies, and in the definition of "target vocabulary," which is defined first in terms of "terms" and then in terms of "concepts". This ambiguity seems confusing. Could one not say that mapping is something that is done between concepts -- even if those concepts are "represented" by descriptors (i.e., terms)? Finally, the terms "vocabulary" and "language" are not themselves defined in the glossary. These problems could perhaps be addressed with careful wording. However, I'm not sure much can be done to avoid the terminology clash between a thesaurus "term" (a natural-language label, which may sometimes also be a descriptor identifying a concept) and an SKOS "term" (a concept, or unit of thought, identified with a URI and labelled with natural-language "labels"). Both uses of "term" are fundamental to their respective communities. "Term" is perhaps one of those words that is doomed to have multiple functions -- e.g. even in the title: a "Glossary of terms...". Tom [1] The definition of "vocabulary control" would also need to replace "identify" with "label". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:31:52 +0000 From: Leonard Will <L.Will@willpowerinfo.co.uk> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom - Thanks for these comments. Our British Standards working party will meet on 25th January, and we plan to discuss them then. Personally I would be happy to go along with the use of "label" here; we have already used it in the definition of "quasi-synonym" and the note under "scope note". To be consistent with SKOS, I suppose we should say that non-descriptors are alternative labels for concepts, while descriptors are the labels to be used in indexing. >These problems could perhaps be addressed with careful wording. >However, I'm not sure much can be done to avoid the terminology clash >between a thesaurus "term" (a natural-language label, which may >sometimes also be a descriptor identifying a concept) and an SKOS >"term" (a concept, or unit of thought, identified with a URI and >labelled with natural-language "labels"). Both uses of "term" are >fundamental to their respective communities. "Term" is perhaps one of >those words that is doomed to have multiple functions -- e.g. even in >the title: a "Glossary of terms...". If SKOS uses "term" as a synonym for "concept", I think that that is unfortunate. Apart from the fact that the natural-language interpretations of the two words are quite different, a controlled vocabulary such as that of SKOS terminology should ideally not contain two words for the same thing. (Or are you saying that in SKOS a concept only becomes a "term" once it is identified with a URI and labelled with natural-language "labels"?) We may have to accept a certain looseness of meaning, though, because even in the thesaurus community it is conventional to talk of broader, narrower and related terms (BT, NT, RT) whereas it would really be more correct to speak about broader, narrower and related concepts. I'll make any agreed changes to the glossary after our meeting on the 25th. Regards Leonard ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 06:00:24 +0100 From: Thomas Baker <thomas.baker@bi.fhg.de> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 08:31:52PM +0000, Leonard Will wrote: > If SKOS uses "term" as a synonym for "concept", I think that that is > unfortunate. Apart from the fact that the natural-language > interpretations of the two words are quite different, a controlled > vocabulary such as that of SKOS terminology should ideally not contain > two words for the same thing. (Or are you saying that in SKOS a concept > only becomes a "term" once it is > identified with a URI and labelled with natural-language "labels"?) Not quite... I am not talking about the thesaurus concepts that are described using the SKOS Core vocabulary but the "terms" of the SKOS Core vocabulary itself -- terms such as Collection [1] or even Concept [2]. As in: "The base namespace for all terms in the SKOS Core vocabulary is..." and "Each term (i.e. class or property) in the SKOS Core vocabulary..." [3]. > We may have to accept a certain looseness of meaning, though, because > even in the thesaurus community it is conventional to talk of broader, > narrower and related terms (BT, NT, RT) whereas it would really be more > correct to speak about broader, narrower and related concepts. I agree. [1] http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection [2] http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept [3] http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/spec/2004-12-17.html -- Dr. Thomas Baker Thomas.Baker@izb.fraunhofer.de Institutszentrum Schloss Birlinghoven mobile +49-160-9664-2129 Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft work +49-30-8109-9027 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany fax +49-2241-144-2352 Personal email: thbaker79@alumni.amherst.edu
Received on Sunday, 6 February 2005 13:15:20 UTC