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RE: [Proposal][SKOS-Core] skos:denotes

From: Miles, AJ (Alistair) <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:24:28 +0100
Message-ID: <350DC7048372D31197F200902773DF4C05E50CA6@exchange11.rl.ac.uk>
To: 'Leo Sauermann' <leo@gnowsis.com>, public-esw-thes@w3.org

Hi Leo,

To answer the easiest question first, the 'traditional' way to use SKOS
concepts is as the values in a subject-based index of documents.  There is a
proposal on the table [1] for a 'skos:subject' property, which basically
behaves in the same way to the 'dc:subject' property, i.e. you will be able
to state:

<rdf:RDF /*standard namespaces*/>

  <rdf:Description rdf:about="http://foo.com/somedoc.html">
    <skos:subject rdf:resource="http://bar.com/some#concept"/>
  </rdf:Description>

</rdf:RDF>

Of course, there are many other scenarios emerging in which SKOS concepts
can be used (and your use case is expanding the set I had imagined so far
:).  For example, a SKOS concept can be depicted by an image, or a SKOS
concept could be a topic of interest or expertise for a person ...

Anyway.  Another set of scenarios (including yours I think) requires us to
be able to express a relationship between a SKOS concept and an RDFS/OWL
Class/Individual that 'intends'/'represents'/'denotes' the same (or similar)
thing.  This requirement was the basis for the original 'skos:denotes'
proposal [2] which has been argued for by danbri (see e.g. [3]).

However, others have argued that a relationship of meaning between a SKOS
concept and an RDFS/OWL Class/Individual is essentially the same as a
mapping relationship between two SKOS concepts (see e.g. [4]).  Or in other
words, there is no difference in the level of abstraction between a SKOS
concept and an RDFS/OWL Class/Individual.  Hence a 'skos:denotes' property
is not appropriate.

So this debate is currently poised :)  

I'm just thinking, perhaps a more detailed description of your requirements
here could help us with this problem ... could you expand a little on these
for us?

Thanks,

Alistair.

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Oct/0081.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Sep/0041.html
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Sep/0067.html
[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Oct/0005.html



-----Original Message-----
From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Leo Sauermann
Sent: 14 October 2004 09:46
To: public-esw-thes@w3.org
Subject: Re: [Proposal][SKOS-Core] skos:denotes


Danbri:

> RDF tries to impose some basic design constraints across all projects
> that use it, to make things easier for data-merging, extensibility
> etc. What we're doing with skos:represents (or whatever it gets
> called) is coming up with a little add-on that helps SKOS-based RDF
> data work better with non-SKOS RDF data.


I could not follow the whole discussion, because I began thinking about skos
a week ago
http://leobard.twoday.net/stories/360443/

My Goal is:

I want to build stuctures that are independent of nromal RDF instances, that
means: I want to model things like "Job" 
"Private" "ProjectX" and form these things as SKOS:Concepts

then I have emails, files, photos, websites, etc that I want to add to these
SKOS:concepts

Ideal:
SKOS concepts
REAL LIFE Resources

JOB
 - Project X
     - Meeting 23.10.2004
 - Project Y
Email "skos;denoites"
File "skos image"
Website "skos website"
Website "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw"


now I want
<meeting 23.10.2004> <????> <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw>


the problem:
You forgot to add somehting to skos that allows to acutally USE skos.
A thesaurus /taxonomy/  whatever is only useful when I can link it to
external RDF resources,

All predicates in SKOS are having domain/range skos Concepts,
but SKOS concepts are a closed thing and I want to create triples from skos
to the outer world.
The "real" resources out there in the world are of type email, file, person,
vcard, vEvent

So, please,
tell me which property I have to use to hang real resources to a SKOS
concept.
is this SKOS:denotes?

is it dc:hasPart ?

cheers
Leo
Received on Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:25:04 UTC

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