- From: Carl Mattocks <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>
- Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:41:15 -0400 (EDT)
- To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
- Cc: "Carl Mattocks" <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>, "Stella Dextre Clarke" <sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk>, "'Miles,\ AJ \(Alistair\) '" <a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk>, "'Leonard Will'" <l.will@willpowerinfo.co.uk>, public-esw-thes@w3.org
Chaals : Clarification accepted with thanks .. but requesting more on the 'forwards / backwards compatible lumping' (1) within a single thesaurus - same set of author(s) / steward(s) thus same purpose (2) a different thesaurus . - different (single) set of author(s) / steward(s) different purpose <quote who="Charles McCathieNevile"> > Trying to clarify: > It is reasonably easy to say that some parts of a thesaurus are > forwards/backwards compatible with some other parts of a different > thesaurus. > For example a new thesaurus that lumps bananas and mangoes together isn't > backwards compatible with an original one that identifies them, unless > there > is a concept for the lumping together in the original. But the original is > forwards compatible with the new one since you don't lose anything (in the > context of what the new thesaurus tells you) by using its interpretation. > > (Al and I wrote some stuff up about how to do this. The code looks ugly, > because its designed to work across the open environment of the semantic > web, > but it's actually pretty simple in practice - the diagrams would be much > cleaner :-) Please forward the diagrams > If you deprecate a term, you just make it a non-preferred and make a new > preferred term. You might want to make a "deprecatedPreferred" as a > subproperty of altLabel (or whatever it's called), and you might want to > be > able to note the date when something was deprecated (in which case you > need > to be able to use an anonymous node in modelling it, not just a literal, > but > the mechanics boil down to putting a date in the right place). This means > you > can compare usage with what applied at the time - an important check on > quality control, since people using the right thing at the right time is > different from people not noticing something has changed. absolutey in agreement cheers carl > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Carl Mattocks wrote: >> >>Since I also believe this type of 'concept evolution' information is >>valuable .. for discussion purposes I propose we use - >>the notion of UseVersioned (that includes start & end time when version >>was current) to identify when a particular 'Thesaurus Concept' is (was) >>the preferred 'term' for indexing and /or query purposes; >>the notion of BroaderTermSuperceded to identify when the conceptual >>framing (the collection of narrower terms) has been modified. >> >><quote who="Stella Dextre Clarke"> >>> >>> No time to explore this in detail. But there is a grey area in the >>> definition of "concept", concerning broad concepts and narrow concepts. >>> The concept of Tropical products is quite a broad one, broader than >>> Tropical fruits and much broader than Bananas. So in one sense it holds >>> all those narrower concepts within it, and the broader term becomes the >>> preferred term for those narrower concepts. In this sense, the narrower >>> concepts are still there, whether or not their presence is revealed by >>> providing a non-preferred term. Another way to look at it is to say No, >>> you should use Tropical products only in the context of queries or >>> documents that deal with the subject broadly. And when narrower >>> preferred terms are present, that is what we do say. But when the >>> narrower terms are non-preferred, pointing to the broader one, we >>> usually allow that broader term to be used for all the narrower >>> concepts >>> within its scope. >>> >>> >>>> It is unusual to drop a concept altogether. >>>> Normally one >>>> provides a lead-in entry pointing to the broader concept that >>>> covers the >>>> scope of the preferred term that is now to be "deprecated". >>> >>> ... but this *is* to drop a concept, and say 'now use this concept >>> instead', surely? >>> >>>> Much more likely would be to decide that that subject area should be >>>> indexed at a much shallower level of specificity. So, for example, in >>>> a thesaurus for agricultural products, it might be decided that >>>> tropical products should no longer be covered in detail. Where >>>> previously you had >>>> Bananas, Pineapples, Brazil nuts etc as preferred terms ( with a >>>> hierarchy of BTs such as Tropical fruits all the way up to Tropical >>>> products), you might leave just one term "Tropical products" to cover >>>> all of these. In the thesaurus you would organise entries such as >>>> "Bananas USE Tropical products" - perhaps hundreds of such >>>> entries. Now >>>> where is the "deprecated concept"? >>> >>> The 'deprecated concepts' are all of the concepts that where previously >>> reified in the thesaurus by the presence of a preferred term which is >>> no >>> longer preferred. >>> >>> (I.e. Every preferred term in a thesaurus reifies a concept. >>> Non-preferred terms expand upon and refine the meaning of a concept. >>> If >>> you change a term from preferred to non-preferred, you are essentially >>> dropping a concept from the thesaurus.) >>> >>>> I don't warm, either, to the idea of a concept getting "replaced" by >>>> another one, unless they are so close that you would treat the two as >>>> quasi-synonymous. You are hardly going to replace Bananas with Washing >>> >>>> machines? >>> >>> But in the above example, you are suggesting that the concept with >>> prefLabel 'Bananas' should be replaced (in indexing metadata) by the >>> concept with prefLabel 'Tropical products'. >>> >>>> So the idea of a "deprecated concept" just feels a bit alien. >>> >>> I am sensitive to this. I'm just looking to find a way to model and to >>> represent (in RDF) at least some of the features of the change process >>> ... I have the idea that this information explicitly captured would be >>> valuable. >>> >>> Al. >>> >>>> >>>> Stella >>>> >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm actually thinking about supporting candidate/deprecated *concepts* >>> >>>> (and not terms), which brings a slightly different set of >>>> requirements. >>>> >>>> Al. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> > >The paradigm (as I understand it) in the thesaurus world is >>>> > for terms (or >>>> > >concepts) to go through three stages: candidate, accepted, >>>> > deprecated (i.e. >>>> > >replaced). >>>> > > >>>> > >We can use dcterms:replaces and dcterms:isReplacedBy to >>>> > describe concept >>>> > >replacements I think (although how to handle replacement >>>> > with combinations >>>> > >is uncertain yet). >>>> > >>>> > If use of a term is discontinued, it is good practice to retain it >>>> > as a non-preferred term, with a USE pointer to the term or >>>> combination of >>>> > terms that should be used in future for the concept that it >>>> > represented. >>>> > A history note should indicate when it was used for indexing. >>>> > >>>> > I don't think that you need to distinguish between "deprecated" and >>>> > "non-preferred" terms, which you would express as altLabels. As you >>>> > have noted, you do however have to handle combinations such as: >>>> > >>>> > "physics education USE physics AND education" >>>> > >>>> > Leonard -- Carl Mattocks co-Chair OASIS (ISO/TS 15000) ebXMLRegistry Semantic Content SC co-Chair OASIS Business Centric Methodology TC CEO CHECKMi v/f (usa) 908 322 8715 www.CHECKMi.com Semantically Smart Compendiums (AOL) IM CarlCHECKMi
Received on Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:41:16 UTC