- From: Carl Mattocks <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>
- Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:44:33 -0400 (EDT)
- To: "Stella Dextre Clarke" <sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk>
- Cc: "'Miles, AJ \(Alistair\) '" <a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk>, "'Leonard Will'" <l.will@willpowerinfo.co.uk>, public-esw-thes@w3.org
Al et al ( ? :-}) : Since I also believe this type of 'concept evolution' information is valuable .. for discussion purposes I propose we use - the notion of UseVersioned (that includes start & end time when version was current) to identify when a particular 'Thesaurus Concept' is (was) the preferred 'term' for indexing and /or query purposes; the notion of BroaderTermSuperceded to identify when the conceptual framing (the collection of narrower terms) has been modified. ok ? carl <quote who="Stella Dextre Clarke"> > > No time to explore this in detail. But there is a grey area in the > definition of "concept", concerning broad concepts and narrow concepts. > The concept of Tropical products is quite a broad one, broader than > Tropical fruits and much broader than Bananas. So in one sense it holds > all those narrower concepts within it, and the broader term becomes the > preferred term for those narrower concepts. In this sense, the narrower > concepts are still there, whether or not their presence is revealed by > providing a non-preferred term. Another way to look at it is to say No, > you should use Tropical products only in the context of queries or > documents that deal with the subject broadly. And when narrower > preferred terms are present, that is what we do say. But when the > narrower terms are non-preferred, pointing to the broader one, we > usually allow that broader term to be used for all the narrower concepts > within its scope. Sorry, I am not articulating this well. It is just a > pragmatic way of dealing with concepts that works fine when you have > trained people using the thesaurus. But open to all sorts of hazards > when the process is automated. > Must dash. Not sure if that helps. > Stella > > ***************************************************** > Stella Dextre Clarke > Information Consultant > Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, Oxon, OX12 8RR, UK > Tel: 01235-833-298 > Fax: 01235-863-298 > SDClarke@LukeHouse.demon.co.uk > ***************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Miles, AJ (Alistair) [mailto:A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk] > Sent: 08 October 2004 15:44 > To: 'Stella Dextre Clarke'; 'Leonard Will'; public-esw-thes@w3.org > Subject: RE: candidate and deprecated concepts > > > Hi Stella, > >> It is unusual to drop a concept altogether. >> Normally one >> provides a lead-in entry pointing to the broader concept that >> covers the >> scope of the preferred term that is now to be "deprecated". > > ... but this *is* to drop a concept, and say 'now use this concept > instead', surely? > >> Much more likely would be to decide that that subject area should be >> indexed at a much shallower level of specificity. So, for example, in >> a thesaurus for agricultural products, it might be decided that >> tropical products should no longer be covered in detail. Where >> previously you had >> Bananas, Pineapples, Brazil nuts etc as preferred terms ( with a >> hierarchy of BTs such as Tropical fruits all the way up to Tropical >> products), you might leave just one term "Tropical products" to cover >> all of these. In the thesaurus you would organise entries such as >> "Bananas USE Tropical products" - perhaps hundreds of such >> entries. Now >> where is the "deprecated concept"? > > The 'deprecated concepts' are all of the concepts that where previously > reified in the thesaurus by the presence of a preferred term which is no > longer preferred. > > (I.e. Every preferred term in a thesaurus reifies a concept. > Non-preferred terms expand upon and refine the meaning of a concept. If > you change a term from preferred to non-preferred, you are essentially > dropping a concept from the thesaurus.) > >> I don't warm, either, to the idea of a concept getting "replaced" by >> another one, unless they are so close that you would treat the two as >> quasi-synonymous. You are hardly going to replace Bananas with Washing > >> machines? > > But in the above example, you are suggesting that the concept with > prefLabel 'Bananas' should be replaced (in indexing metadata) by the > concept with prefLabel 'Tropical products'. > >> So the idea of a "deprecated concept" just feels a bit alien. > > I am sensitive to this. I'm just looking to find a way to model and to > represent (in RDF) at least some of the features of the change process > ... I have the idea that this information explicitly captured would be > valuable. > > Al. > >> >> Stella >> >> ***************************************************** >> Stella Dextre Clarke >> Information Consultant >> Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, Oxon, OX12 8RR, UK >> Tel: 01235-833-298 >> Fax: 01235-863-298 >> SDClarke@LukeHouse.demon.co.uk >> ***************************************************** >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org >> [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Miles, AJ >> (Alistair) >> Sent: 07 October 2004 15:42 >> To: 'Leonard Will'; 'public-esw-thes@w3.org' >> Subject: RE: candidate and deprecated concepts >> >> >> >> I'm actually thinking about supporting candidate/deprecated *concepts* > >> (and not terms), which brings a slightly different set of >> requirements. >> >> Al. >> >> --- >> Alistair Miles >> Research Associate >> CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory >> Building R1 Room 1.60 >> Fermi Avenue >> Chilton >> Didcot >> Oxfordshire OX11 0QX >> United Kingdom >> Email: a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk >> Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440 >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org >> > [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Leonard Will >> > Sent: 07 October 2004 15:20 >> > To: 'public-esw-thes@w3.org' >> > Subject: Re: candidate and deprecated concepts >> > >> > >> > >> > In message >> > <350DC7048372D31197F200902773DF4C05E50C7D@exchange11.rl.ac.uk> >> > on Thu, 7 >> > Oct 2004, "Miles, AJ (Alistair)" <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk> wrote >> > > >> > >The paradigm (as I understand it) in the thesaurus world is >> > for terms (or >> > >concepts) to go through three stages: candidate, accepted, >> > deprecated (i.e. >> > >replaced). >> > > >> > >We can use dcterms:replaces and dcterms:isReplacedBy to >> > describe concept >> > >replacements I think (although how to handle replacement >> > with combinations >> > >is uncertain yet). >> > >> > If use of a term is discontinued, it is good practice to retain it >> > as a non-preferred term, with a USE pointer to the term or >> combination of >> > terms that should be used in future for the concept that it >> > represented. >> > A history note should indicate when it was used for indexing. >> > >> > I don't think that you need to distinguish between "deprecated" and >> > "non-preferred" terms, which you would express as altLabels. As you >> > have noted, you do however have to handle combinations such as: >> > >> > "physics education USE physics AND education" >> > >> > Leonard >> > -- >> > Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, >> > Sheena E Will) >> > Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 >> > (0)20 8372 0092 >> > 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex EN2 7BQ, UK. Fax: +44 (0)870 051 >> > 7276 >> > L.Will@Willpowerinfo.co.uk >> > Sheena.Will@Willpowerinfo.co.uk >> > ---------------- <URL:http://www.willpowerinfo.co.uk/> >> > ----------------- >> > >> >> > > > -- Carl Mattocks co-Chair OASIS (ISO/TS 15000) ebXMLRegistry Semantic Content SC co-Chair OASIS Business Centric Methodology TC CEO CHECKMi v/f (usa) 908 322 8715 www.CHECKMi.com Semantically Smart Compendiums (AOL) IM CarlCHECKMi
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