RE: Implied DPUB-ARIA endnotes

Ya, I'm sure I've seen those, too.

The restriction on footnotes in endnotes is only to avoid the problem of the pattern currently in example 15, whereby you'd get an empty endnote consisting only of a footnote. We could try and reformulate the restriction along those lines, but it probably makes it more complicated to process then is actually needed.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com> 
Sent: August 14, 2021 8:21 AM
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Cc: Jens Tröger <jens.troeger@light-speed.de>; W3C EPUB 3 Working Group <public-epub-wg@w3.org>; W3C Publishing Community Group <public-publishingcg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Implied DPUB-ARIA endnotes

I have seen footnotes on footnotes in several books. I have never seen a footnote on an endnote. 

Dave

> On Aug 14, 2021, at 7:56 AM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jens,
> 
> Yes, this is no doubt a niche case, but we shouldn't make legitimate cases impossible no matter how uncommon they may be. I can at least theorize on some possible uses, like a translation or annotated edition of a work that adds clarifying notes to the original author's.
> 
> But you can still include the footnote(s) after the list of endnotes; the endnote would only have the noteref. We're only disallowing the use of the doc-footnote role within the list items of the endnotes section. I think this will work for those niche cases.
> 
> In any case, the pull request is here: https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/pull/39
> 
> Matt
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Tröger <jens.troeger@light-speed.de> 
> Sent: August 11, 2021 5:44 PM
> To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
> Cc: W3C EPUB 3 Working Group <public-epub-wg@w3.org>; W3C Publishing Community Group <public-publishingcg@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Implied DPUB-ARIA endnotes
> 
> Hello Matt,
> 
> WFIW I’ve come across ebooks generated from TEI.2 XML files (which came from scanning and OCR’ing old printed books) which contained footnotes that had footnotes. Not quite the endnotes scenario you mention here, but considering that there are books out there whose footnotes have footnotes I wouldn’t be surprised to see an endnote with a footnote.
> 
> I can build you one, if you want to 😉
> 
> Having said that, I usually lean towards more restrictive approaches than allowing theoretical minority edge cases. Happy to comment on a PR, if you have a link…
> 
> With kind regards,
> Jens
> 
> --
> Jens Tröger, Founder, Bookalope
> web: https://bookalope.net/
> twitter: @bookalope
> phone: +1-425-586-0202
> 
> 
>> On Aug 11, 2021, at 21:53, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> We’re about to publish the first public working draft of the DPUB-ARIA 1.1 module, but there’s one remaining question about endnotes we’re seeking feedback on after it goes out.[1]
>> 
>> In deprecating the doc-endnote role, assistive technologies can still find the implied endnotes by processing the list(s) within the doc-endnotes section. In this case, there’s no need for the section to include doc-footnote roles within the list items, as currently shown in Example 15.[2]
>> 
>> More specifically, using the doc-footnote role within the endnotes is potentially confusing for processing, as it becomes less clear whether the list item is an end note or if a separate footnote is being specified. To avoid this confusion, we’re proposing to disallow the use of the doc-footnote role within the endnotes.
>> 
>> I don’t recall ever seeing endnotes with their own footnotes, but I also know anything is possible in publishing. So before implementing this change, we wanted to make sure that this won’t cause future problems. If you believe it’s realistic to expect to need footnotes within an endnotes section, please add your comments to the pull request and we can look at only recommending not using or noting the potential problem.
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/issues/38
>> [2] https://w3c.github.io/dpub-aria/#example-15
>> 
>> Matt
> 
> 
>

Received on Saturday, 14 August 2021 23:31:23 UTC