- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 15:40:19 +0100
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <67fe5c96-b04a-88a1-7d9e-cd7afee05957@pjjk.co.uk>
Thanks Vicki, that helps.
The CTDL <http://credreg.net/ctdl/terms> has a number of relationships
between credentials and organizations that may be relevant
(accreditedBy, approvedBy, offeredBy, ownedBy, recognizedBy, renewedBy,
revokedBy). I guess it is worth asking now what is the minimum number
needed for our use cases for EOCredentials in schema.org
My expectation is that offeredBy, accreditedBy and recognizedBy would be
enough. The latter two relate to our use case about quality assurance
<https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Quality_assurance>.
I think they would also provide information about who stands behind a
credential.
Phil
On 28/03/18 13:37, Vicki Tardif wrote:
> Phil,
>
> Fair enough. Mostly I am concerned about making it clear to readers
> and writers who stands behind the Credential and who took the money.
> With the proper descriptions, etc, we can probably make that clear
> with "offeredBy" in both cases.
>
> - Vicki
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 4:45 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk
> <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Vicki, I am not sure about that example. It looks to me like a
> learning opportunity (the Courses) that is created by Google,
> offeredBy Coursera, leading to a Credential that is offeredBy
> Google (or maybe Coursera, it's not clear to me what Google's role
> is because the learning opportunity and the credential aren't
> described separately).
>
> Generally, it seems common for terms like Degree and Certificate
> and even Qualification to be used for the learning opportunity as
> well as the EO Credential they lead to. The page Vicki links to
> uses the terms Certificate and Program interchangeably "This
> program is designed..." "This six-course certificate...". The SQA
> example I use does similar. It may be a bit late to ask this, but
> am I out of step in thinking the distinction is important? (for
> modelling in schema.org <http://schema.org>, not for colloquial use).
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 26/03/18 19:44, Vicki Tardif wrote:
>> In my mind, the difference is captured in the example at
>> https://www.coursera.org/specializations/google-it-support
>> <https://www.coursera.org/specializations/google-it-support>
>>
>> As I understand it, the credential is issuedBy (whether future or
>> past tense) Google, but is offeredBy Coursera. In other words, it
>> is a Google certification, but the student pays Coursera.
>>
>> - Vicki
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Hugh Paterson III
>> <sil.linguist@gmail.com <mailto:sil.linguist@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> issuedBy vs. offeredBy
>> The terms themselves indicate a semantics to me that seems to
>> indicate that the issuedBy property appears on a credential
>> already earned or awarded, whereas offering is what is
>> currently offered by a granting institution. The University
>> of Nottingham may stop offering a Ph.D in Electrical
>> Engineering. Earners of Ph.D's have an issuedby property,
>> where as an aggregation of current offerings of Ph.Ds in
>> Electrical Engineering would not include The University of
>> Nottingham.
>>
>> Am I missing the point of the question at hand?
>> - Hugh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Phil Barker
>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> I think it depends on whether the distinction between
>> offering and issuing is going to be important.
>>
>> For example a credential might be offered by several
>> organizations and it might be important to know which of
>> those had issued a specific instance. That's a bit
>> hypothetical, I have no strong feel for how often such a
>> distinction would matter in practice (or even if it
>> really happens).
>>
>> issuedBy also has the merit of being simpler, more direct.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> On 26/03/18 16:29, Vicki Tardif wrote:
>>> I think using "offers" works for the use case of
>>> understanding which organizations offer a particular
>>> credential, but does this work as well for the eventual
>>> use case of "Person X earned Credential Y from
>>> Organization Z"?
>>>
>>> If "issuedBy" works better for the latter, maybe we
>>> should also use it for this use case.
>>>
>>> - Vicki
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Phil Barker
>>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looking through the use cases
>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Name_search_for_credentialing_organization>
>>> for Educational Occupational Credentials in
>>> schema.org <http://schema.org>, I see we have one for
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Name search for credentialing organization
>>>>
>>>> It should be possible to search and find
>>>> credentials by the name of the credentialing
>>>> organization.
>>>>
>>>> *Requires:*ability to show relationship between
>>>> educational / occupational credential objects
>>>> and descriptions or representations of
>>>> credentialling organization
>>>>
>>> Also,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Find credentialing organization[edit
>>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/index.php?title=Use_Cases&action=edit§ion=26>]
>>>>
>>>> Having identified a credential, it should be
>>>> possible to find the credentialing organization.
>>>>
>>> I think we have already solved these back when we
>>> discussed cost of a credential. We solved this in
>>> part by use of the the schema.org
>>> <http://schema.org> offers property and Offer type.
>>> As I think Richard pointed out at the time, the
>>> Offer type has a property 'offeredBy' so we can say:
>>>
>>> {
>>> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>>> "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
>>> "url" :"https://example.org/ecocred"
>>> <https://example.org/ecocred>,
>>> "name": "Example",
>>> "offers": {
>>> "@type": "Offer",
>>> "offeredBy" : {
>>> "@type": "Organization",
>>> "name": "Example org",
>>> "url":"https://example.org/" <https://example.org/>
>>> }
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> The Example credential is offered by Example.org.
>>>
>>> Does anyone think this is not sufficient to meet the
>>> use case?
>>>
>>> An alternative is to co-opt the issuedBy
>>> <http://schema.org/issuedBy> property from Permit
>>> <http://schema.org/Permit>. But one important aspect
>>> of our work here is that we are dealing /primarily/
>>> with the offer of a Credential, not a claim that
>>> someone has earned one. That is, BadgeClass rather
>>> than Assertions if you appreciate a parallel with
>>> Open Badges. So offeredBy seems the better fit to me.
>>>
>>> There is a note in the use cases that "there may be
>>> several different significant types of relationship
>>> between credentials and organizations". We have a
>>> separate use case for quality assurance that would
>>> cover accreditation, recognition etc., of the
>>> credentialing organization and which we can discuss
>>> later.
>>>
>>> Regards, Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to
>>> enhance learning; information systems for education.
>>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation
>>> in education technology.
>>>
>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private
>>> limited company, number SC569282.
>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability
>>> partnership, registered in England number OC399090
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to
>> enhance learning; information systems for education.
>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
>> education technology.
>>
>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private
>> limited company, number SC569282.
>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
>> registered in England number OC399090
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
> learning; information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
> company, number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered
> in England number OC399090
>
>
--
Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
information systems for education.
CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
number SC569282.
CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
England number OC399090
Received on Wednesday, 28 March 2018 14:40:47 UTC