- From: Joao Paulo Almeida <jpalmeida@ieee.org>
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:19:05 -0200
- To: Laufer <laufer@globo.com>
- Cc: Bernadette Farias Lóscio <bfl@cin.ufpe.br>, Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>, "public-dwbp-wg@w3.org" <public-dwbp-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAFWj3C_mzCta9+cENNhwmW9d=kz1mEJSJ4vgWsDg=v2Cd4VVgg@mail.gmail.com>
Dear All, The key is to talk about meaning. A vocabulary is not *simply* a set of terms, ... it is a set of *meaningful* terms. Thus, we can only talk about a vocabulary if there is a set of terms and some means to establish their intended (or agreed) meaning. This means may be simply descriptions of the terms in natural language and/or some kind of formal structure (e.g., an axiomatic theory with meaning postulates). best regards, João Paulo On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Laufer <laufer@globo.com> wrote: > Hi, All, > > I am a little bit confused. Reading the discussions it seems (to me) that > vocabulary would be strictly the nouns. > > If I understood correctly, I disagree. > > Maybe in natural languages this is the meaning of vocabulary but I don't > think this is the meaning in our community. > > Best, > Laufer > > 2015-02-12 12:52 GMT-02:00 Bernadette Farias Lóscio <bfl@cin.ufpe.br>: > > Hi Antoine, >> >> I agree with you that schema and vocabulary are defined in the same >> place. A schema defined in XML Schema, a relational database schema or an >> ontology define both the structure of data and the vocabulary. >> >> Maybe, its better to say that the schema defines both the structure used >> to validate the data together with the vocabulary, i.e, the set of terms >> used to specify this structure. Is it ok for you? >> >> cheers, >> Bernadette >> >> >> >> 2015-02-09 18:34 GMT-03:00 Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>: >> >> Hi Bernadette, >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> I'm afraid it's still not clear. In Semantic Web parliance, both what >>> you call the schema and the vocabulary would be defined in the same place - >>> an ontology. I have the feeling that in other technologies that would be >>> the same: in XML schema the terms would be introduced and given a >>> definition (and a role in the data structure) in an XSD file, wouldn't they? >>> >>> Antoine >>> >>> On 2/6/15 5:38 PM, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Antoine, >>>> >>>> I'm sorry, it was my mistake: Person is part of the vocabulary. >>>> >>>> Person(name, age, sex, id) defines the schema of the relation, where >>>> Person is the name of the relation and (name, age and sex) are attributes >>>> of Person. >>>> >>>> person, name, age, sex, id are terms that compose the vocabulary. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Bernadette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-02-06 11:40 GMT-03:00 Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl <mailto: >>>> aisaac@few.vu.nl>>: >>>> >>>> >>>> - the structure of the data should be referred to as the data >>>> schema >>>> - the collection of terms used in the schema to describe how to >>>> interpret data values should be refered to as the vocabulary >>>> >>>> >>>> Person(name, age, sex, id) --> this is the schema >>>> terms name, age, sex and id --> this is the vocabulary >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am sorry but I don't understand the proposal! Is the definition >>>> 'Person' part of the schema but not in the vocabulary? The definition of >>>> 'name' is in the vocabulary and not in the schema? >>>> >>>> Antoine >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/3/15 5:02 PM, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I'd like to discuss with you the difference between vocabulary, >>>> data >>>> schema, data model and data format. João Paulo started this >>>> discussion >>>> earlier in this message: >>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/__Public/public-dwbp-wg/ >>>> 2015Jan/__0195.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp- >>>> wg/2015Jan/0195.html> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is worth to read the whole message to better understand the >>>> definitions. In the following, I show just parts of the message >>>> with >>>> some definitions: >>>> ------------------------- >>>> - About data representation and data format >>>> >>>> "By "data representation" we mean any convention for the >>>> arrangement of >>>> symbols in such a way as to enable information to be encoded by >>>> a data >>>> producer and later decoded by data consumers. >>>> >>>> A particular convention for data representation is often >>>> referred to as a >>>> "data format"." >>>> >>>> .... >>>> >>>> - About schemas >>>> >>>> For example, an XML-based format can be >>>> specified with a "schema document" in the XML Schema Definition >>>> language, >>>> enabling XML documents to be checked for conformance to the >>>> format defined >>>> in the schema document [XML-SCHEMA]. >>>> >>>> "schemas" are often used as a means to anchor natural language >>>> descriptions to guide humans in the interpretation of data >>>> produced using >>>> the format. Often, labels are used in these schemas to convey >>>> intuitive >>>> meaning and guide interpretation, in which case these labels >>>> serve the role >>>> of "terms" in communication. The collection of terms as used in >>>> the schema >>>> is then referred to as a "vocabulary". >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> The notion of schema presented above is similar to the one of >>>> relational schema in the database world. A relational database >>>> schema >>>> describes the set of relation schemas of a given database. A >>>> relation >>>> schema is composed by the name of the relation together with its >>>> attributes. This specifies how to interpret instances of a given >>>> relation (or table). In the database world, a data model >>>> consists of a >>>> set of constructs to build databases. For example, in the >>>> relational >>>> model, databases are represented as a collection of relations >>>> (or >>>> tables). >>>> >>>> IMO vocabularies may be used to describe data schemas even when >>>> the >>>> RDF model is not being used. Vocabularies should be used to >>>> help tasks >>>> like data integration and to improve data interoperability. >>>> >>>> In this case, I suggest: >>>> >>>> - the structure of the data should be referred to as the data >>>> schema >>>> - the collection of terms used in the schema to describe how to >>>> interpret data values should be refered to as the vocabulary >>>> - the abstract syntax to define schemas should be referred to >>>> as data model >>>> >>>> Example (relational schema defined according to the relational >>>> data model): >>>> >>>> Person(name, age, sex, id) --> this is the schema >>>> terms name, age, sex and id --> this is the vocabulary >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Bernadette >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-01-22 13:46 GMT-03:00 Data on the Web Best Practices >>>> Working >>>> Group Issue Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org <mailto: >>>> sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>>: >>>> >>>> dwbp-ISSUE-134 (BernadetteLoscio): About Formats, schemas, >>>> vocabularies and data models [Best practices document(s)] >>>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/__track/issues/134 < >>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/134> >>>> >>>> Raised by: Joao Paulo Almeida >>>> On product: Best practices document(s) >>>> >>>> The group needs to settle on some concepts (and ultimately >>>> terms) that should help us to structure our discussions, give us a basis >>>> to communicate and help our audience to understand us. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Bernadette Farias Lóscio >>>> Centro de Informática >>>> Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ---------------- >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bernadette Farias Lóscio >> Centro de Informática >> Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > -- > . . . .. . . > . . . .. > . .. . >
Received on Thursday, 12 February 2015 16:19:35 UTC