RE: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs) from Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken on 2016-07-19 (public-dpub-aria@w3.org from July 2016)

From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:17:11 +0000
To: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
CC: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, "ARIA Working Group" <public-aria@w3.org>, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>, "DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)" <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40b8bec3c000415aa971996919534afb@AUS-WNMBP-005-n.wiley.com>
I confirm your concerns, Rich. We think this information should be passed on to the user.

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:13 AM
To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
Cc: James Craig; Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch; DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)
Subject: Re: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs)

We don’t own Apple’s platform but I feel that Apple is making assumptions that are too broad and essentially removing the needed information that should be passed on to the user. I wanted you to confirm or not confirm my concerns.

If there is going to be an issue we need to make Apple aware of it. If there is an issue and they still chose to prohibit their own ATs from accessing the information then they made the choice to do so. As for other browsers like Firefox and Chrome, which use IA2, or even Edge I will push to make sure necessary semantics are passed over. The IA2 platform allows for this (Chrome and FF) as the actual object attribute is passed. ATK/ATSP also allows for this. I will be getting with Cynthia on Edge too.

A lot of things indeed do not need to be mapped to something  unique and this will be the case as you add new roles. There is also the point where you reach information overload with no ROI for AT users.  In which case the roles should simply not be mapped.

Rich

Rich Schwerdtfeger



On Jul 18, 2016, at 2:49 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

While it is true that often there is a heading for these elements (e.g. <h1>Bibliography</h1>), it is not always the case, especially for something like doc-endnotes.

I am rather puzzled about mapping items that subclass landmark in DPUB-ARIA to group in the first place though. The purpose of making these elements landmarks was based on experience of users of AT in the long-form publishing world. We expect users to want to navigate to items such as the pagelist, abstract, afterword, and then dive into the individual components of the publication.

We can certainly add this to our agenda for the DPUB-ARIA meeting on Thursday.

Tzviya


Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: Rich Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:32 PM
To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
Cc: James Craig; Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch
Subject: Re: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs)

  Sorry that was a typo . It should be doc-pagelist.

Also,

James provided mappings for things like appendix and acknowledgements below. Rather than expose these as appendix and acknowledgements he believes they only need be exposed as a group as the headers for those section will include those words i. Them at all times

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 18, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:
Hi Rich,

I am puzzled by this question, because I don’t recognize the role doc-panelist. Did something creep in from another document?

Thanks,
Tzviya

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com]
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 1:47 PM
To: Rich Schwerdtfeger
Cc: Joanmarie Diggs; ARIA Working Group; Fred Esch
Subject: "doc-panelist" (Was: AXAPI Role mappings for DPub and Graphics AAMs)

What about things like doc-panelist whose superclass is “navigation”?

I don't see that in the draft, but I assume it could be mapped like its superclass "navigation" role.

If that role is intended to read as "pane list", it looks like the word "panelist", aka a human participant in a panel. The DPUB group should consider changing it to avoid ambiguity.

We would do the same superclass mapping with the SVG "graphics-document" role.

graphics-document

Same as "document" role.

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXDocument
  AXRoleDescription: 'document'

For that matter, I'm not convinced the "graphics-document" subrole literal is required. Why can't this just be an implementation details for any "document" inside an image?

James


On Jul 18, 2016, at 7:12 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com<mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>> wrote:

What about things like doc-panelist whose superclass is “navigation”?

That is now only a group which has no semantic meaning.

Rich

Rich Schwerdtfeger



On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:56 PM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com<mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:

I've completed the mapping list below. As most of these do not require special mappings to the API, the mappings should inherit from their superclass role in Core-AAM.

These are links, headings, images, an occasional landmark, and a lot of generic groups. Most of the generic groups (abstract, footnotes, etc.) will be clearly identified to the user by a contained heading, so they do not need any additional mapping to the API.

Note: Some roles—like chapter and subtitle—are likely to have additional support in the future. However, because no chapter- or subtitle-specific subrole is supported by any user agent or assistive technology, no special mapping should be included in a TR document.

Thanks,
James Craig




On Jul 1, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>> wrote:

Hi Chris and James.

I was looking over mappings for the DPub submodule of ARIA and noticed
that there were a lot of "TBD" notes for AXSubrole. That, along with
spotting "AXRoleDescription: 'doc toc'," suggests we need your input.

Below please find a list of all the role mappings for your platform from
the DPub AAM spec, along with the three from the Graphics AAM spec. When
you have some spare cycles, it would be great if you could review what
we currently have and let us know what we should have.

Thanks in advance for your time. And have an awesome weekend!
--joanie

======================================================================
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html


1. doc-abstract
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'abstract'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




2. doc-acknowledgments
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'acknowledgments'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




3. doc-afterword
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'afterword'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




4. doc-appendix
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'appendix'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




5. doc-backlink
  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'backward reference'

  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'link'




6. doc-biblioentry
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography entry'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




7. doc-bibliography
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




8. doc-biblioref
  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'bibliography reference'

  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'link'




9. doc-chapter
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'chapter'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'

Chapter is the most likely candidate for a future subrole, but none exists yet.




10. doc-colophon
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'colophon'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




11. doc-conclusion
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'conclusion'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




12. doc-cover
  AXRole: AXImage
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'image'

  AXRole: AXImage
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'image'




13. doc-credit
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'credit'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




14. doc-credits
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'credits'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




15. doc-dedication
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'dedication'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




16. doc-endnote
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'endnote'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




17. doc-endnotes
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'endnotes'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




18. doc-epigraph
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'epigraph'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




19. doc-epilogue
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'epilogue'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




20. doc-errata
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'errata'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




21. doc-example
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'example'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




22. doc-footnote
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'footnote'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




23. doc-foreword
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'foreword'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




24. doc-glossary
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'glossary'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




25. doc-glossref
  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'glossary reference'

  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'link'




26. doc-index
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'index'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




27. doc-introduction
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'introduction'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




28. doc-noteref
  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'note reference'

  AXRole: AXLink
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'link'




29. doc-notice
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'notice'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




30. doc-pagebreak
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'page break'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




31. doc-pagelist
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXLandmarkNavigation
  AXRoleDescription: 'page list'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




32. doc-part
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'part'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




33. doc-preface
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'preface'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




34. doc-prologue
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'prologue'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




35. doc-pullquote: (not mapped)

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




36. doc-qna
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'questions and answers'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




37. doc-subtitle
  AXRole: AXHeading
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'subtitle'

  AXRole: AXHeading
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'heading'




38. doc-tip
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: TBD
  AXRoleDescription: 'tip'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'





39. doc-toc
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXLandmarkNavigation
  AXRoleDescription: 'doc toc'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




======================================================================
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/graphics-aam/graphics-aam.html


1. graphics-document
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXGraphicsDoc
  AXRoleDescription: 'graphics document'

Same as "document" role.

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXDocument
  AXRoleDescription: 'document'





2. graphics-object
  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: AXGraphicsObject
  AXRoleDescription: 'graphics object'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'




3. graphics-symbol
  AXRole: TBD
  AXSubrole: AXSymbol
  AXRoleDescription: 'graphics symbol'

  AXRole: AXGroup
  AXSubrole: <nil>
  AXRoleDescription: 'group'
Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2016 15:17:53 UTC