- From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:25:47 -0600
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Cc: W3C PF - DPUB Joint Task Force <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>, Tzviya Siegman <tsiegman@wiley.com>
- Message-ID: <OF3F0CC972.8D1A1133-ON86257F3B.00703370-86257F3B.00703981@us.ibm.com>
ok. cool.
Rich Schwerdtfeger
From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: W3C PF - DPUB Joint Task Force <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>,
Tzviya Siegman <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Date: 01/15/2016 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [dpub-aria] @rel (was 20160114 meeting cancelled)
Thanks Rich, I understand what you mean.
Ivan
On 15 Jan 2016, at 17:23, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
We were discussing a possible role description for link roles. ARIA
1.1 has a role description: aria-roledescription
We were also discussion possible new aria attributes for the type of
link.
The problem is that @rel can have a link that points to all sorts of
things as you know. ... Dublic core meta data, and so on, which
constitute other semantic taxonomies. The semantics mapping issues
grow exponentially.
So, if we expose @rel to platform accessibility APIs it becomes quite
complicated as to how to do it correctly. Values such as "prefetch"
have no value to an AT. The combination is a catch all for semantics
(hence the cesspool).
So, AT vendors need to adapt their products for these new
accessibility semantics. Many of them have limited budgets and they
expect people to pay for the development. Who is going to do that?
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
<graycol.gif>Ivan Herman ---01/15/2016 07:41:26 AM---Tzviya, Rich, I
must admit I did not follow the details of the discussions for a
while. *If* using @
From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
To: Tzviya Siegman <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, W3C PF - DPUB Joint Task
Force <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/15/2016 07:41 AM
Subject: Re: [dpub-aria] @rel (was 20160114 meeting cancelled)
Tzviya, Rich,
I must admit I did not follow the details of the discussions for a
while. *If* using @rel is not the solution, what are the current,
available approaches instead? Is there some sort of a clear list of
alternatives that are still on the table? (I know there were
discussions around this already prior to TPAC.)
My apologies if that was already clearly stated and I just missed it.
Minor comments below
On 15 Jan 2016, at 14:26, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <
tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote:
Hi Rich,
I just changed the subject line so that people will see this.
Rich has raised some concerns with @rel (in lieu of *ref).
Let’s try to discuss via email because time is of the essence:
Quoting Rich’s message:
Keep in mind this will require:
New Accessibility API mappings for @rel in HTML 5 that do
not exist today. Currently @rel is not mapped.
Understood. But we already have to define mappings for a range of
@role values for DPUB anyway, right?
Adding @rel to SVG
You mean adding @rel to the SVG spec? That is probably the biggest
obstacle indeed. Actually, SVG uses the Simple Link of XLInk and
xlink:arcrole is probably available already, but that is only in
theory; I do not think any SVG tool would ever use it and they may
fail on them. And it is of course then an alias to @ref from an ARIA
point of view, which is never a good thing...
Dealing with the problem that @rel references a my words (a
cesspool) of meta data semantics that any mapping to platform
accessibility APIs would need to sift through.
I am not sure I understand what you mean. Where is this different
from the mapping that you already refer to?
Figuring out how to fund AT Vendors to support the new
accessibility api mappings across platform.
Don't we have the same problem with the DPUB ARIA module already? I
am also not sure what it means, for W3C, to 'fund' AT Vendors…
Thanks
Ivan
I understand that these are concerns from an accessibility
standpoint, but we are not suggesting adding @rel to ARIA but
making use of a valid HTML attribute. If AT doesn’t recognize
@rel, isn’t that already a problem. The questions we had hoped
to discuss next week are the ones associated with the
semantics, and whether the semantics generated by @rel will
cause problems. It is quite troubling that @rel, which should
be quite robust seems to have been restricted to fewer than 5
values.
Thanks,
Tzviya
Tzviya Siegman
Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com
From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 2:48 PM
To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
Cc: DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)
Subject: RE: [dpub-aria] 20160114 meeting cancelled
We can discuss this next week but when I heard that you were
considering @rel again it appeared that the group might have
forgotten the issues. Consequently, I sent them out to the
group so you have them.
We can certainly discuss these on the list.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
<image001.gif>"Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" ---01/14/2016
08:15:04 AM---Hi Rich, We want to discuss the pros/cons. As
explained last week, Markus, Matt, and I are meeting d
From: "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: "DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)" <
public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/14/2016 08:15 AM
Subject: RE: [dpub-aria] 20160114 meeting cancelled
Hi Rich,
We want to discuss the pros/cons. As explained last week,
Markus, Matt, and I are meeting deadlines for EPUB now. Janina
had planned to discuss this next week at APA. If we need to
discuss sooner, can we do it over email?
Thanks,
Tzviya
Tzviya Siegman
Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com
From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:09 AM
To: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
Cc: DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)
Subject: Re: [dpub-aria] 20160114 meeting cancelled
That is unfortunate. I understand that the DPUB people want to
go back to @rel for the special links currently specified in
dpub-aria.
Keep in mind this will require:
New Accessibility API mappings for @rel in HTML 5 that do
not exist today. Currently @rel is not mapped.
Adding @rel to SVG
Dealing with the problem that @rel references a my words
(a cesspool) of meta data semantics that any mapping to
platform accessibility APIs would need to sift through.
Figuring out how to fund AT Vendors to support the new
accessibility api mappings across platform.
I currently don't support this approach but I am not going to
fight it either. I agree that it does not make sense to create
multiple roles for each type of link. This is reflected in the
current specifications.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
<image001.gif>"Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" ---01/13/2016
08:58:50 AM---The 2016-01-14 DPUB-ARIA meeting is cancelled
We'll pick up again shortly.
From: "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>
To: "DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)" <
public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/13/2016 08:58 AM
Subject: [dpub-aria] 20160114 meeting cancelled
The 2016-01-14 DPUB-ARIA meeting is cancelled
We’ll pick up again shortly.
Tzviya Siegman
Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com
----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
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Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM]
----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
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Received on Friday, 15 January 2016 20:27:23 UTC