Re: aria-describedat

I agree Charles but aria-describedat is not implemented either. I think we
should fix <details>/<summary> to do what we need and make sure it works
across browsers. Do you have a list of issues as to why Mozilla and
Microsoft did not implement it? Was their a technical reason? Was it just a
"not enough cycles" issue? I am flying out to Redmond next wee for other
things I could try and meet with someone from the browser team.

If it <details> could take a source file that loaded the content in a
renderable <iframe> we could put the URL in a sand box. If no src was
provided or the URL could not be resolved we could use the text provided as
a fallback.

Although some of the people who have raised issues about the
longdesc/aria-describedat approach have not said it I think the real issue
they are having as it could result in another tab being generated which
could be annoying to some users. Perhaps James, David, or Ted could weigh
in on that.


Rich Schwerdtfeger

From:	"Chaals McCathie Nevile" <>
To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, "Gunderson, Jon R"
Cc:	"Michael Cooper" <>, "Ted O'Connor"
            <>, "Steve Faulkner"
            <>, "Janina Sajka"
            <>, "Judy Brewer" <>, "James
            Craig" <>, "George Kerscher"
            <>, "Leonie Watson"
            <>, "Markus Gylling"
            <>, ""
            <>, "W3C PF - DPUB Joint Task Force"
            <>, "HTMLWG WG" <>, PF
            <>, "SVG WG" <>, "David
            (Standards) Singer" <>
Date:	08/11/2015 04:40 AM
Subject:	Re: aria-describedat

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:29:57 +0200, Gunderson, Jon R
<> wrote:

> Rich,
> In your example does the SUMMARY element content serve as the text
> equivalent for the image, or would the image also need an ALT attribute?

In the example as suggested, it appears that there needs to be an alt as

Actually, the example wouldn't work at the moment, and would force
everyone to read the full table, which is pretty sub-optimal, given that
details/summary isn't implemented - and therefore nor is it part of an
HTML standard.

An alternative is to provide the table via longdesc, but while almost all
screenreaders support this fine, support for non-screenreader users in
browsers is still pretty much rubbish :(



> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger []
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 12:06 PM
>> yes. but I would not put the in the details. I would embed that in a
>> Figure with the figcaption having the details.
>> Note: this did not make the cut for HTML5. This would be HTML 5.1. but
>> right now we don't have support in IE, Edge, or Firefox.
>> Also, given that HTML5.1 is not done I would recommed this design
>> pattern:
>> <figure>
>> <figcaption>
>> <details src="http://... foo.html">
>>  <summary>Texas Roots</summary>
>>  ... optional content if the URL is not retrievable. ... like your
>> table.
>> </details>
>> </figcaption>
>> <img src="xxxx">
>> </figure>
>> This would allow access to diagram project descriptions which could be
>> rendered into details.

Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex - - - Find more at

Received on Tuesday, 11 August 2015 17:32:50 UTC