Re: "Responsive Ebook Design"

Having had a quick and cursory look at the multiple rendition draft:

http://www.idpf.org/epub/renditions/multiple/

it seems to be true that the various aspects described in that document are expressible as HTTP request parameters, which is pretty much in line with what you seem to suggest: let various HTTP request work its way for multiple rendition. But I can imagine that the distribution/publishing realities dictate to have the various versions bundled together.

The bottom line for me now is that this issue may have to be addressed more extensively within the framework of EPUB-WEB although I am not yet sure how that duality (HTTP vs. one bundle) will work out.

Ivan




> On 17 Jan 2015, at 23:59 , Liza Daly <liza@safaribooksonline.com> wrote:
> 
> Though it's out of date and the slides themselves aren't really wordy enough to stand on their own, I talked about a mapping between multiple renditions and HTTP content negotiation in this presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/lizadaly/streaming-digital-books-idpf-digital-book-2012-presentation
> 
> The idea was that a packaged EPUB could be a large, rich "manuscript", and the work of downscaling, swapping formats, or choosing between translations could be done at request time. I don't know if anything like this has ever been implemented in practice, though, so I wouldn't consider multiple renditions particularly relevant for the OWP.
> 
> Liza
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Bill McCoy <whmccoy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> +1 to Ivan's last comment. IDPF considers EPUB to be the portable document profile of the Open Web Platform, and thus not something disjoint from OWP. But on this list I take a reference to making a feature in EPUB "available in OWP" not as a slight to EPUB but as shorthand for "making that feature available for websites and Web-technology-based apps as well as in EPUB publications".
> 
> But to Ivan's original comments, it may be that for online websites and apps, media queries and HTTP content negotiation along with responsive design techniques are already sufficient to support the scenarios that multiple renditions facilitates for EPUB.The basic assumption of a packaged portable document is that there is no server agent turning requests for resources into representations on the fly (per the REST architecture of the online Web), i.e. resource=representation. Multiple renditions gets past this constraint at the publication level by enabling creators to deliver together, and users to swap between, a high quality fixed layout representation and a highly accessible reflowable representation, or portrait and landscape representations,  but for a website it's possible and commonplace to do that kind of thing via server intelligence. For Web-technology-based apps (*), it would be more common to do address this at a panel/scene level via responsive design not by having multiple separate versions together (which is a pretty blunt instrument and which I see also being less important down the road as we get better with responsive design... template based pagination being another, IMO better, way to skin this cat).
> 
> --Bill
> 
> (*) is there a better name for this? "Web Apps" to me is ambiguous because it also encompasses websites with some active server processing, and I don't see Chrome Apps and Expedia.com as being the same kind of animal.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> Leonard,
> 
> this is all true. However, the current solution for multiple rendition is closely tied to EPUB and I was just wondering whether the same notions (and solutions) would have their place as part of a more general solution, e.g., CSS or similar.
> 
> Ivan
> 
> 
> 
> > On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:20 , Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ivan - the OWP is not tied to the W3C.  There are MANY technologies that
> > are standardized by other organizations that are part of the OWP.  Just
> > looking at the OWP wiki at the W3C
> > (<http://www.w3.org/wiki/Open_Web_Platform>), I see three - ECMAScript
> > (ECMA), HTTP (IETF) and URI (IETF).
> >
> > And then there are various other standards referenced from the HTML or SVG
> > specifications that come from elsewhere such as ICC Profiles, OpenType and
> > JPEG which are all ISO standards.
> >
> > To quote the first line of that wiki:
> > The Open Web Platform is the collection of open (royalty-free)
> > technologies which enables the Web. Using the Open Web Platform, everyone
> > has the right to implement a software component of the Web without
> > requiring any approvals or waiving license fees.
> >
> > Doesn’t matter where they come from as long as they meet that goal.
> >
> >
> > Leonard
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/15/15, 9:30 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> >
> >> (+cc to the IG list)
> >>
> >> Thanks Shinyu!
> >>
> >> I am not familiar with the details of the EPUB multiple rendition spec,
> >> but it does raise a question: isn't this something that should be
> >> available in the OWP? Isn't this a requirement this group should describe
> >> to the the XXX WG? (I am not sure what 'XXX' is.)
> >>
> >> Ivan
> >>
> >>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 16:45 , Shinyu Murakami <murakami@vivliostyle.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi DigiPub people,
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to introduce an interesting article:
> >>>
> >>> Responsive Ebook Design: A Primer
> >>> by Sanders Kleinfeld (O'Reilly Media)
> >>>
> >>> https://medium.com/@sandersk/responsive-ebook-design-a-primer-8bba0132821
> >>> 9
> >>>
> >>> I deeply agree to the author that we need open-standard, responsive
> >>> alternatives to fixed layout.
> >>> I am happy I can contribute to this area through the Vivliostyle (open
> >>> source, web browser based CSS typesetting) project, that is mentioned in
> >>> this article.
> >>>
> >>> Vivliostyle Project
> >>> https://github.com/vivliostyle/vivliostyle
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Shinyu Murakami (村上 真雄)
> >>> CEO & Founder, Vivliostyle Inc.
> >>> http://vivliostyle.com
> >>> murakami@vivliostyle.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Ivan Herman, W3C
> >> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> >> mobile: +31-641044153
> >> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> 
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704