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Re: Some significant items for discussion on "What is a Web Publication?"

From: Liam R. E. Quin <liam@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 18:35:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1485128107.26891.374.camel@w3.org>
To: George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>, 'Bill Kasdorf' <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com>, 'DPUB mailing list' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
On Sun, 2017-01-22 at 12:40 -0700, George Kerscher wrote:
> Hi,
>  
> Clearly a course would be made up using a range of web publications,
> but the whole course being a web publications seems like too much.

Concepts such as "related publications" and "part of a series" come to
mind. For a multi-voume work such as the well-known twelve-volume
Encyclopedia of Latvian Snail-Dances, individual volumes have an ISBN
and are available for purchase but there's also an identifier for the
collection, which includes courses and student snail-dance exercises
[1].

An advantage of bundling up a whole series might be to simplify inter-
volume links (cross-references), although we need to end up in a place
where a publication doesn't need to change in order to have cross-
volume links start working locally when you buy the fifth volume
(“Emanating Clockwise Spirals”) instead of going to a local page that
says you don't have the volume and linking to the publisher's Web site
or the various bookshops you've been using to buy the other volumes. So
maybe that is not a real advantage.

In any case we should be flexible and not I think exclude the
possibility of a “boxed set” that might include multiple “publications”
and maybe even other boxes.

On trust and working offline - if a PWP is held (notionally) entirely
in browser-local storage, maybe a private/personal Web server could be
a requirement, resolving some of the "file domain" issues.

Liam

[1] The deluxe edition includes a DVD of the snails' mating dances, but
that may be a little too risqué to mention here.

>  I envision courses evolve from week to week with interactions
> between students and professors, and new items being added along the
> way.
>  
> Best
> George
>  
>  
> From: Bill Kasdorf [mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:33 AM
> To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>; DPUB mailing list (public
> -digipub-ig@w3.org) <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
> Subject: RE: Some significant items for discussion on "What is a Web
> Publication?"
>  
> Leonard's first point made me think of an interesting use case. In
> educational publishing, and especially higher ed, there are
> "textbooks" (which can be physical or digital, and the latter can
> include plenty of non-text and non-image resources), which should
> clearly fit the definition of Web Publications. But there are also
> "courses." The publishers tend to distinguish the two, though there
> may be a significant amount of overlapping content between a "course"
> and a "textbook" used in that course. The course is more interactive,
> with assessments (tests, quizzes, exercises, group activities, etc.),
> and data is usually collected in the course of the "course" wrt
> students' activities, results, progress, what they look at, what they
> skip, etc. But the "course" definitely is conceived and created as a
> "thing." Can that "course" be a Web Publication?
>  
> And a quick thought re Leonard's point wrt "– is that “A Web
> Publication must be available and functional while the user is
> offline”: I think we may wind up needing to add "be able to be made"
> to some clauses like that, e.g., perhaps in this case "– is that “A
> Web Publication must be able to be made available and functional
> while the user is offline”.
>  
>  
> 
> Bill Kasdorf
> 
> VP and Principal Consultant | Apex CoVantage
> 
> p:
> 734-904-6252  m:   734-904-6252
> ISNI:  <http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786>
> http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
> ORCiD:  <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>
> https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
>  
>  
> From: Leonard Rosenthol [mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:16 AM
> To: DPUB mailing list (public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipu
> b-ig@w3.org> )
> Subject: Some significant items for discussion on "What is a Web
> Publication?"
> Importance: High
>  
> While working on the PWP document today, I can into a few things that
> I’d like to raise for discussion (either via email or phone tomorrow,
> or both).
>  
> Let’s start right up front with the definition of a Web Publication
> :).   It currently reads “A Web Publication (WP) is a bounded
> collection of resources, envisioned and created as a whole”.  I would
> like to review the second half of that sentence – about the
> envisioned and created as a whole.  In the world of documents, the
> most popular feature of processing applications is the ability to
> combine parts of other documents together to create a new one.  In
> that use case, the resources weren’t “envisioned and created as a
> whole”.  You could say that the author/publisher envisioned that
> collection and intentionally collated those resources together – but
> that’s different from what is here.  I would also put forth that the
> application of annotations to a WP can create a new WP that also was
> not “envisioned and created as a whole”.
>  
>  
> There is a requirement that “The package must include the unique
> identifier of the manifestation—a Web Publication’s origin is
> essential information if a PWP becomes portable”.  Two paragraphs
> later it goes into further detail about the origin inclusion and even
> mentions trust. Unfortunately, that requirement seems to imply some
> potential implementation considerations that the WebPackaging work is
> proving to not be feasible – see https://github.com/dimich-g/webpacka
> ge/issues/7.  I would like to remove the second half of that sentence
> (about the origin) and also remove the bit about trust from the
> latest paragraph.  Let’s just leave it open that we want a unique
> identifier, but that’s it, and that the origin is not necessarily
> related to the identifier.  
>  
>  
> Here’s the one where George, Charles and others are going to be
> scream – but I believe it is an extremely important point – you can’t
> mandate accessibility in a WP (ie. “A Web Publication must be
> accessible to the broadest possible range of readers”). We should
> make it a strong recommendation (a “should” vs. a “shall” in ISO
> terminology) and do all we can to promote this direction.  However,
> given our goals to support not only curated publications but also ad-
> hoc publications, it is not reasonable to expect them all to be
> accessible.  Just as not every page on the web is accessible, web
> publications need not be either.  
>  
>  
> Another area that we cannot mandate – but should make a strong
> recommendation – is that “A Web Publication must be available and
> functional while the user is offline”. An author may produce a
> publication that is only designed to be used online – for example,
> one that connects to an online system. We don’t wish to prevent the
> development of such a publication.
>  
>  
> Finally, I think we say too much about the use of the manifest.  It
> says “We also introduce the abstract concept of a manifest, which
> serves to carry information about the constituent resources of the
> publication, their sequence, and presentation”.  I think we should
> only say that it carries the resources and not mention sequence and
> presentation. This is consistent with our statement, earlier in the
> same section, about how we aren’t going to define “manifest” (and
> leave it in the generic FRBR sense).
>  
>  
> Leonard
Received on Sunday, 22 January 2017 23:35:21 UTC

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