- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 10:33:59 +0800
- To: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, Paul Belfanti <Paul.Belfanti@ascendlearning.com>, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, "'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'" <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>, 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com>, 'AUDRAIN LUC' <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, 'George Kerscher' <kerscher@montana.com>
- Cc: 'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org>, 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee' <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>, 'W3C Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <5d9f395f-a6c6-cdfb-2a94-6c83959e8e6c@w3.org>
I have committed a new version to the same pull request, figuring Liisa's version. This seems to be accepted by the majority of the commenters. I would like to accept this pull request, say, on Monday (dreadful local hotel network permitting:-), to move on. Cheers Ivan On 02/04/2017 01:00, Bill Kasdorf wrote: > +1 from me too. I like Liisa’s solution. > > > > Bill Kasdorf > > VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage* > > p: > > > > 734-904-6252 m: 734-904-6252 > > ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786 > > ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786 > <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en> > > > > > > *From:*Paul Belfanti [mailto:Paul.Belfanti@ascendlearning.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 6:25 PM > *To:* Matt Garrish; 'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'; Bill Kasdorf; 'Leonard > Rosenthol'; 'AUDRAIN LUC'; 'George Kerscher' > *Cc:* 'Charles LaPierre'; 'Ivan Herman'; 'W3C Publishing Steering > Committee'; 'W3C Digital Publishing IG' > *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > +1 > > I personally think the wording works in either option, but I like > Liisa’s suggested modification as it places the “what” before the > potential “hows” > > > > Paul > > — > > Paul Belfanti > > VP, Production, Manufacturing & Content Architecture > > (w) 978.639.3536 > > (m) 201.783.4884 > > > > *From: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com > <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>> > *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 6:04 PM > *To: *"'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'" <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com > <mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>>, 'Bill Kasdorf' > <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>, > 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, > 'AUDRAIN LUC' <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr > <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, 'George Kerscher' > <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> > *Cc: *'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org > <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, 'Ivan Herman' <ivan@w3.org > <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee' > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, 'W3C > Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > *Resent-From: *<public-publishing-sc@w3.org > <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>> > *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 6:04 PM > > > > Completely agree. I expect there will be items that we will need to deal > with for both accessibility and usability. > > > > Even if you read the statement as the creation of new technologies and > not just adapting and patching holes, a replacement for media overlays > is one example of a pending need for accessibility. > > > > Matt > > > > *From:*McCloy-Kelley, Liisa [mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com] > *Sent:* March 31, 2017 5:47 PM > *To:* Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com > <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>; Leonard Rosenthol > <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>; AUDRAIN LUC > <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>; George > Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> > *Cc:* Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com > <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>; Charles LaPierre > <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>; Ivan Herman > <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>; W3C Publishing Steering Committee > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>; W3C > Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > Ok, I had to put it all together to see. Below is Matt’s proposal in > context. > > > > Seeing it here and thinking about Bill K’s argument, I have to say that > I like what Matt has proposed and agree with Bill’s point that we are > just trying to fill in the gaps to make the combo “complete”. That > doesn’t mean that parts of it aren’t already a lot of the way there. > > > > [[[ > > <p class="mission"> > > The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a > href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing > Working Group</a> is to provide the necessary technologies on the Open > Web Platform to make the combination of traditional publishing and the > Web complete in terms of accessibility, usability, > portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and reliable cross > referencing. > > All publications—with all their specificities and > traditions—should become first-class entities on the Web. > > </p> > > ]]] > > > > Does it help to reverse it and make the first-class entity statement the > initial what and the second sentence the how? > > > > [[[ > > <p class="mission"> > > The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a > href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing > Working Group</a> is to enable all publications—with all their > specificities and traditions—to become first-class entities on the Web. > The WG will provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform > to make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web complete > in terms of accessibility, usability, portability, distribution, > archiving, offline access, and reliable cross referencing. > > > > </p> > > ]]] > > > > > > *From: *Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com > <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>> > *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 5:11 PM > *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com > <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr > <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, George Kerscher > <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> > *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com > <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre > <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman > <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C > Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > *Resent-From: *<public-publishing-sc@w3.org > <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>> > *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 5:11 PM > > > > Nope, that’s not how I read it. We are going to provide the necessary > technologies to ensure that this complete list is met. That doesn’t say > that it isn’t already partially met. Otherwise it would be arguable that > the entire list is unnecessary, because it is arguable that all of those > aspects are addressed in some way or another already too. > > > > Bill Kasdorf > > VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage* > > p: > > > > 734-904-6252 m: 734-904-6252 > > ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786 > > ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786 > <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en> > > > > > > *From:*Leonard Rosenthol [mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 4:56 PM > *To:* Bill Kasdorf; AUDRAIN LUC; George Kerscher > *Cc:* Matt Garrish; Charles LaPierre; Ivan Herman; W3C Publishing > Steering Committee; W3C Digital Publishing IG > *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > But read what comes before that… > > /is to provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform/ > > > > Meaning that we are going to provide things that are missing. To put > accessibility and usability in that mission will be stating that they > aren’t already there. > > > > Leonard > > > > *From: *Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com > <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>> > *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:28 PM > *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com > <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr > <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, "kerscher@montana.com > <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>" <kerscher@montana.com > <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> > *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com > <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre > <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman > <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C > Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > I disagree. We are talking about what makes “the combination of > traditional publishing and the Web complete.” It isn’t complete without > those. > > > > Bill Kasdorf > > VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage* > > p: > > > > 734-904-6252 m: 734-904-6252 > > ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisni.org%2Fisni%2F0000000116490786&data=02%7C01%7C%7C500602cd2f9d455d725208d4786c2de2%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265853398836966&sdata=W6dSdoGGKPKHeOZSWs%2FmMj2pz7yEAbW89EfWAIoZMgI%3D&reserved=0> > > ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0001-7002-4786%3Flang%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C500602cd2f9d455d725208d4786c2de2%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265853398836966&sdata=XMGCB7ttiH4jJDH85vA7VYNk6dcEjm2h0gmkS4gqaok%3D&reserved=0> > > > > > > *From:*Leonard Rosenthol [mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 3:25 PM > *To:* AUDRAIN LUC; George Kerscher > *Cc:* Matt Garrish; Charles LaPierre; Ivan Herman; W3C Publishing > Steering Committee; W3C Digital Publishing IG > *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > I actually want to pose an alternate position. > > > > We are talking here about ADDING things to web – such as portability, > archiving, etc. It already has accessibility and usability! As such, > they don’t belong in this sentence. > > > > So I would strongly recommend returning to the original statement. > > > > Leonard > > > > *From: *AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr > <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>> > *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:02 PM > *To: *"kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>" > <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> > *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com > <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre > <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman > <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C > Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject: *Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > *Resent-From: *<public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:04 PM > > > > +1 > > Luc > > > Le 31 mars 2017 à 20:59, George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com > <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> a écrit : > > I like’ Matt’s version. > > > > Best > > George > > > > *From:*Matt Garrish [mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 12:35 PM > *To:* 'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org > <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>; 'Ivan Herman' <ivan@w3.org > <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> > *Cc:* 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee' > <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>; > 'W3C Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org > <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject:* RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > I find "the readers' needs" a bit nebulous as it seems to encompass > accessibility already, no? If it stands in for > usability+accessibility, maybe call out both instead: > > > > > to make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web > complete in terms of accessibility, usability, > portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and reliable > cross referencing > > > > (If you don't like the above, a couple of minor nits: it's not an > "or" list, and the list would be easier to read without "the" in > front of "readers' needs".) > > > > Matt > > > > *From:*Charles LaPierre [mailto:charlesl@benetech.org] > *Sent:* March 31, 2017 2:06 PM > *To:* Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> > *Cc:* W3C Publishing Steering Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org > <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>; W3C Digital Publishing IG > <public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>> > *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter > > > > Can we add “accessibility" to that list, > > ie. > provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform to > make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web complete > in terms of the readers’ needs, portability, distribution, > archiving, offline access, accessibility, or reliable cross referencing. > > > > Thanks > > EOM > > Charles LaPierre > Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible > E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org> > Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y > Skype: charles_lapierre > Phone: 650-600-3301 > > > > > > On Mar 30, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org > <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote: > > > > I have added a mission statement to the charter (in a separate > pull request); it is, essentially, the last paragraph of the > (renewed) goal section. It says: > > > > [[[ > > <p class="mission"> > > The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a > href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing > Working Group</a> is to provide the necessary technologies on > the Open Web Platform to make the combination of traditional > publishing and the Web complete in terms of the readers’ needs, > portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, or > reliable cross referencing. > > All publications—with all their > specificities and traditions—should become first-class entities > on the Web. > > </p> > > ]]] > > > > Please comment, or simply give a thumbs up, on > > > > https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/pull/52 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fpull%2F52&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=FPW2DP7DAc3bqRtpmO3eGGYiX8jbQIp0iS1krPTlIs0%3D&reserved=0> > > > > Thanks > > > > ivan > > > ---- > Ivan Herman, W3C > Publishing@W3C Technical Lead > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=8uPBU%2BgvkGBa1Aflc16gnvFQA2baJXAPlLRO%2BZFZur4%3D&reserved=0> > mobile: +31-641044153 > > ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-0782-2704&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=%2FbzYdCBP%2FLraT1jTNkNEsyS19ZvrsFVOACb0%2BWO6RaM%3D&reserved=0> > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message including attachments, if > any, is intended for the person or entity to which it is addressed and > may contain confidential, privileged, and/or proprietary material. Any > unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply > e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > -- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
Received on Sunday, 2 April 2017 02:34:45 UTC