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Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 10:33:59 +0800
To: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, Paul Belfanti <Paul.Belfanti@ascendlearning.com>, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, "'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'" <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>, 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com>, 'AUDRAIN LUC' <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, 'George Kerscher' <kerscher@montana.com>
Cc: 'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org>, 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee' <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>, 'W3C Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5d9f395f-a6c6-cdfb-2a94-6c83959e8e6c@w3.org>
I have committed a new version to the same pull request, figuring
Liisa's version. This seems to be accepted by the majority of the
commenters. I would like to accept this pull request, say, on Monday
(dreadful local hotel network permitting:-), to move on.

Cheers

Ivan

On 02/04/2017 01:00, Bill Kasdorf wrote:
> +1 from me too. I like Liisa’s solution.
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Kasdorf
> 
> VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage*
> 
> p:
> 
> 	
> 
> 734-904-6252  m:   734-904-6252
> 
> ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
> 
> ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Paul Belfanti [mailto:Paul.Belfanti@ascendlearning.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 6:25 PM
> *To:* Matt Garrish; 'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'; Bill Kasdorf; 'Leonard
> Rosenthol'; 'AUDRAIN LUC'; 'George Kerscher'
> *Cc:* 'Charles LaPierre'; 'Ivan Herman'; 'W3C Publishing Steering
> Committee'; 'W3C Digital Publishing IG'
> *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>  
> 
> +1
> 
> I personally think the wording works in either option, but I like
> Liisa’s suggested modification as it places the “what” before the
> potential “hows”
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> —
> 
> Paul Belfanti
> 
> VP, Production, Manufacturing & Content Architecture
> 
> (w) 978.639.3536
> 
> (m) 201.783.4884
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com
> <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 6:04 PM
> *To: *"'McCloy-Kelley, Liisa'" <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com
> <mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>>, 'Bill Kasdorf'
> <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>,
> 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>,
> 'AUDRAIN LUC' <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr
> <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, 'George Kerscher'
> <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
> *Cc: *'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org
> <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, 'Ivan Herman' <ivan@w3.org
> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee'
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, 'W3C
> Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> *Resent-From: *<public-publishing-sc@w3.org
> <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 6:04 PM
> 
>  
> 
> Completely agree. I expect there will be items that we will need to deal
> with for both accessibility and usability.
> 
>  
> 
> Even if you read the statement as the creation of new technologies and
> not just adapting and patching holes, a replacement for media overlays
> is one example of a pending need for accessibility.
> 
>  
> 
> Matt
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*McCloy-Kelley, Liisa [mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com]
> *Sent:* March 31, 2017 5:47 PM
> *To:* Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com
> <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>; Leonard Rosenthol
> <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>; AUDRAIN LUC
> <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>; George
> Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
> *Cc:* Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com
> <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>; Charles LaPierre
> <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>; Ivan Herman
> <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>; W3C Publishing Steering Committee
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>; W3C
> Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>  
> 
> Ok, I had to put it all together to see. Below is Matt’s proposal in
> context. 
> 
>  
> 
> Seeing it here and thinking about Bill K’s argument, I have to say that
> I like what Matt has proposed and agree with Bill’s point that we are
> just trying to fill in the gaps to make the combo “complete”. That
> doesn’t mean that parts of it aren’t already a lot of the way there. 
> 
>  
> 
> [[[
> 
>             <p class="mission">
> 
>                 The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a
> href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing
> Working Group</a> is to provide the necessary technologies on the Open
> Web Platform to make the combination of traditional publishing and the
> Web complete in terms of accessibility, usability,
> portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and reliable cross
> referencing.
> 
>                       All publications—with all their specificities and
> traditions—should become first-class entities on the Web.
> 
>             </p>
> 
> ]]]
> 
>  
> 
> Does it help to reverse it and make the first-class entity statement the
> initial what and the second sentence the how? 
> 
>  
> 
> [[[
> 
>             <p class="mission">
> 
>                 The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a
> href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing
> Working Group</a> is to enable all publications—with all their
> specificities and traditions—to become first-class entities on the Web.
> The WG will provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform
> to make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web complete
> in terms of accessibility, usability, portability, distribution,
> archiving, offline access, and reliable cross referencing.
> 
>                       
> 
>             </p>
> 
> ]]]
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com
> <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>
> *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 5:11 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com
> <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr
> <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, George Kerscher
> <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
> *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com
> <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre
> <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman
> <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C
> Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> *Resent-From: *<public-publishing-sc@w3.org
> <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 5:11 PM
> 
>  
> 
> Nope, that’s not how I read it. We are going to provide the necessary
> technologies to ensure that this complete list is met. That doesn’t say
> that it isn’t already partially met. Otherwise it would be arguable that
> the entire list is unnecessary, because it is arguable that all of those
> aspects are addressed in some way or another already too.
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Kasdorf
> 
> VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage*
> 
> p:
> 
> 	
> 
> 734-904-6252  m:   734-904-6252
> 
> ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
> 
> ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Leonard Rosenthol [mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 4:56 PM
> *To:* Bill Kasdorf; AUDRAIN LUC; George Kerscher
> *Cc:* Matt Garrish; Charles LaPierre; Ivan Herman; W3C Publishing
> Steering Committee; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>  
> 
> But read what comes before that…
> 
> /is to provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform/
> 
>  
> 
> Meaning that we are going to provide things that are missing.  To put
> accessibility and usability in that mission will be stating that they
> aren’t already there.
> 
>  
> 
> Leonard
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com
> <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>
> *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:28 PM
> *To: *Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com
> <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr
> <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>, "kerscher@montana.com
> <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>" <kerscher@montana.com
> <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
> *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com
> <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre
> <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman
> <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C
> Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>  
> 
> I disagree. We are talking about what makes “the combination of
> traditional publishing and the Web complete.” It isn’t complete without
> those.
> 
>  
> 
> Bill Kasdorf
> 
> VP and Principal Consultant | *Apex CoVantage*
> 
> p:
> 
> 	
> 
> 734-904-6252  m:   734-904-6252
> 
> ISNI:http://isni.org/isni/0000000116490786
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisni.org%2Fisni%2F0000000116490786&data=02%7C01%7C%7C500602cd2f9d455d725208d4786c2de2%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265853398836966&sdata=W6dSdoGGKPKHeOZSWs%2FmMj2pz7yEAbW89EfWAIoZMgI%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> ORCiD:https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0001-7002-4786%3Flang%3Den&data=02%7C01%7C%7C500602cd2f9d455d725208d4786c2de2%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265853398836966&sdata=XMGCB7ttiH4jJDH85vA7VYNk6dcEjm2h0gmkS4gqaok%3D&reserved=0>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Leonard Rosenthol [mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 3:25 PM
> *To:* AUDRAIN LUC; George Kerscher
> *Cc:* Matt Garrish; Charles LaPierre; Ivan Herman; W3C Publishing
> Steering Committee; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>  
> 
> I actually want to pose an alternate position.
> 
>  
> 
> We are talking here about ADDING things to web – such as portability,
> archiving, etc.   It already has accessibility and usability!   As such,
> they don’t belong in this sentence.
> 
>  
> 
> So I would strongly recommend returning to the original statement.
> 
>  
> 
> Leonard
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr
> <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>
> *Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:02 PM
> *To: *"kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>"
> <kerscher@montana.com <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
> *Cc: *Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com
> <mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>, Charles LaPierre
> <charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>, Ivan Herman
> <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>, W3C
> Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> *Resent-From: *<public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:04 PM
> 
>  
> 
> +1
> 
> Luc
> 
> 
> Le 31 mars 2017 à 20:59, George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com
> <mailto:kerscher@montana.com>> a écrit :
> 
>     I like’ Matt’s version.
> 
>      
> 
>     Best
> 
>     George
> 
>      
> 
>     *From:*Matt Garrish [mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com]
>     *Sent:* Friday, March 31, 2017 12:35 PM
>     *To:* 'Charles LaPierre' <charlesl@benetech.org
>     <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>>; 'Ivan Herman' <ivan@w3.org
>     <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
>     *Cc:* 'W3C Publishing Steering Committee'
>     <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>;
>     'W3C Digital Publishing IG' <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
>     *Subject:* RE: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>      
> 
>     I find "the readers' needs" a bit nebulous as it seems to encompass
>     accessibility already, no? If it stands in for
>     usability+accessibility, maybe call out both instead:
> 
>      
> 
>     > to make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web
>     complete in terms of accessibility, usability,
>     portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and reliable
>     cross referencing
> 
>      
> 
>     (If you don't like the above, a couple of minor nits: it's not an
>     "or" list, and the list would be easier to read without "the" in
>     front of "readers' needs".)
> 
>      
> 
>     Matt
> 
>      
> 
>     *From:*Charles LaPierre [mailto:charlesl@benetech.org]
>     *Sent:* March 31, 2017 2:06 PM
>     *To:* Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
>     *Cc:* W3C Publishing Steering Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>; W3C Digital Publishing IG
>     <public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
>     *Subject:* Re: Added a proposed mission statement to the charter
> 
>      
> 
>     Can we add “accessibility" to that list, 
> 
>     ie.
>          provide the necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform to
>     make the combination of traditional publishing and the Web complete
>     in terms of the readers’ needs, portability, distribution,
>     archiving, offline access, accessibility, or reliable cross referencing.
> 
>      
> 
>     Thanks
> 
>     EOM
> 
>     Charles LaPierre
>     Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
>     E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>
>     Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
>     Skype: charles_lapierre
>     Phone: 650-600-3301
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>         On Mar 30, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org
>         <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
> 
>          
> 
>         I have added a mission statement to the charter (in a separate
>         pull request); it is, essentially, the last paragraph of the
>         (renewed) goal section. It says:
> 
>          
> 
>         [[[
> 
>                     <p class="mission">
> 
>                         The <strong>mission</strong> of the <a
>         href="https://www.w3.org/dpub/WG/
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fdpub%2FWG%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072419233&sdata=zpjbmPwlmXS4NE09EL2fIhTXz9zOKwSfB6RgyG0cgfc%3D&reserved=0>">Publishing
>         Working Group</a> is to provide the necessary technologies on
>         the Open Web Platform to make the combination of traditional
>         publishing and the Web complete in terms of the readers’ needs,
>         portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, or
>         reliable cross referencing.
> 
>                               All publications—with all their
>         specificities and traditions—should become first-class entities
>         on the Web.
> 
>                     </p>
> 
>         ]]]
> 
>          
> 
>         Please comment, or simply give a thumbs up, on
> 
>          
> 
>         https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/pull/52
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fpull%2F52&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=FPW2DP7DAc3bqRtpmO3eGGYiX8jbQIp0iS1krPTlIs0%3D&reserved=0>
> 
>          
> 
>         Thanks
> 
>          
> 
>         ivan
> 
> 
>         ----
>         Ivan Herman, W3C 
>         Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
>         Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=8uPBU%2BgvkGBa1Aflc16gnvFQA2baJXAPlLRO%2BZFZur4%3D&reserved=0>
>         mobile: +31-641044153
> 
>         ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-0782-2704&data=02%7C01%7C%7C444c38cb6168450e617608d47868ceba%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265839072429241&sdata=%2FbzYdCBP%2FLraT1jTNkNEsyS19ZvrsFVOACb0%2BWO6RaM%3D&reserved=0>
> 
>          
> 
>      
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704



Received on Sunday, 2 April 2017 02:34:45 UTC

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