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[Minutes] 2015-03-30 Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 18:40:03 +0200
Message-ID: <55197C63.8000908@w3.org>
To: "public-digipub-ig@w3.org >> W3C Digital Publishing IG" <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Hi all,

The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 
dated 2015-03-30 are now available at


These public minutes are also linked from the dpub wiki

Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience.


Thierry Michel


             Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

30 Mar 2015



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-dpub-irc


           Charles LaPierre (clapierre), Tzviya Siegman (Tzviya),
           Karen Myers (Karen_Myers), Nick Ruffilo (NickRuffilo),
           Ivan Herman (Ivan), Paul Belfanti (pbelfanti), Thierry
           Michel (tmichel), Dave Cramer (dauwhe), Brady Duga
           (duga), Phil Madans (philm), Ayla Stein (Ayla_Stein),
           Michael Miller (AH_Miller), Peter Krautzberger (pkra),
           Matt Garrish (mgarrish), Rego Casasnovas (rego).

           Tim Cole,  Julie Morris, Liza Daly, Alan Stearns, Ben De
           Meester, Vlad Levantovsky, Markus Gylling (Markus).

           Tzviya Siegman

           Nick Ruffilo


      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]ARIA DPUB Module
          2. [6]Packaging use cases
          3. [7]NYC f2f reminder
          4. [8]MathML
      * [9]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2015

    <ivan> Scribe: Nick

    i am here, will scribe/call in 5 minutes, finishing up

    <ivan> for the time being, there are some issues with zakim:-(

    <brady_duga> Ivan, I assume that comment was about dialing in.
    Are you having troubles as well?

    <ivan> the zakim bot has died:-(

    <brady_duga> zakim has fallen and can’t get up

    <Ayla_Stein> D:

    <brady_duga> I am unable to dial in

    <ivan> brady, you are not the only one:-(

    <Ayla_Stein> zakim says no to Monday

    <ivan> a reboot is happening in the background

    <ivan> :-(

    <brady_duga> Aha - working now

    <tzviya> ivan, brady is on now. Are you able to join?

    <pkra> reverse-regrets from me -- I could make it after all.

    Zakim - you shouldn't drink on sundays, it's not wise

    <scribe> scribenick: NickRuffilo

    <pkra> dauwhe :-)

    <tzviya> minutes

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/23-dpub-minutes.html

    Tzviya: "Minutes from last week: please comment/review"
    ... "Minutes approved"

    <tzviya> [11]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html

      [11] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html


    Tzviya: "Matt Garish - please walk through the not-yet-working
    draft of ARIA dpub module"

    Matt: "The big change is that we've gone through and been
    tightening up some of the defintions and making them more
    broad. They were book-centric, but take for granted that people
    had a book/publishing background, so we cleaned that up."
    ...: "Make things more broadly understood and for a web
    audience. Revisited a meaning of the different definitions.
    Made some minor adjustments to names to remove hyphens, as
    those may be used for prefixes/namespaces"
    ... "We also started dropping very domain-specific roles.
    Assessments terms in the original submission are now removed -
    they will be handled in another group in the future. Likewise
    it was noted that without those in there, we'll look to take
    out others that are too domain specific. Removal doesn't mean
    they aren't in future plans, but we want to approach the vocab
    in more holistic terms.

    ...: "There are a number of terms that are 'gone' for this
    original draft, but they aren't forgotten."
    ... "General structures that are useful in broad ways.
    Landmarks from epub-now was a roadmap into the document -
    glossary or index. Aria itself has landmarks which are major
    structures. Allows users to jump to different sections. Rather
    than doing something fast-and-simple we've decided to just
    remove it so that we can figure out what is the best way to
    solve the issue of landmarks without

    conflict/confusion with ARIA."
    ...: "Still a few issues in the ARIA module, glossterm?
    possibly not necessary as it's covered elsewhere. Some generic
    naming issue with things like 'help' or 'part' might mean many
    things to many people, so we're looking for a better term."
    ... "Subtitle/title we're still looking for a way to help
    people and use those best. Referrer is the link back from the
    content/footnote. Referrer isn't exactly the best thing to call
    it, so we're changing the name to locator. These things are
    still up for discussion/debate. Ultimately if you can go
    through the terms/definitions, but if you want to be thorough,
    please go through the role

    descriptions and characterstics. Take a look at the super-class
    ...: "There's another: Required Owned Elements, and Required
    Context Roles - used in Bibliographies and glossaries. The
    symantics noted have to occur. Required context role means that
    an item must have a parent. Glossary must always have a term,
    but a term may not be part of a glossary...""
    ... "Final to look at is the 'Name from' field. Author or
    content. Means that the author has created a label. You're
    creating it yourself through an ARIA role. if it's content then
    it's actually picking up the text-node of the element. A link
    can use the text of the link, but by-and-large you don't want
    the entire contents to be picked up - for example, an entire

    Tzviya: "first draft mid-april. if you have comments, reach
    out. Issues are meant to be commented on and the issues need to
    be resovled."
    ...: "Feedback VERY welcomed. Looking at the spec might be
    confusing if you are not familiar with the ARIA docs. if you
    have questions, please reach out."

    Bill: "Part issue - You want to get rid of that work. People
    think a part is a subset of something, but for books, part is a
    container. So there is a definition conflict."

    Matt: "Correct - that's what we're working on."

    Bill: "I think we should not use part. We should have a
    less-ambiguous term that is a 'group' of chapters"

    Matt: "Is there a generic ARIA concept for a wrapper?"

    Tzviya: "We can achieve that through HTML."

    Bill: "You have to worry about the semantics of the sections.
    For example units in textbooks"

    Ivan: "Many readers of the documents will be people who don't
    know the details of ARIA or what it stands for ( should go to
    publishers who may not know). Explanations or examples to make
    clear what the usage of the various of the aria- attributes :
    why are they there, would be very important."

    <clapierre> +1 for examples for Publishers
    ...: "It's more a presentation issue. At the moment the
    document is very abstract and I miss this gentle introduction
    for those who are not familiar to accessability or ARIA"
    ... "Human readable documentation would improve things alot."
    ... "Second question: if I look at the end/appendix. it talks
    about XHTML+ARIA DTD and open HTML. HTML 4.1... What happens
    with HTML5? "

    Tzviya: "Some of this is written by us, some is generated by
    PF-Magic. It was generally agreed upon that the PF-magic stuff
    needs to be worked on. "

    Ivan: "Until that is properly fix, something in the document
    should be added about HTML5 - such as 'HTML5 is coming' if you
    look at this now, you'll get a huge rejection of people who are
    against XHTML, etc."

    Matt: "It was picked up from ARIA 1.1, so it needs to be
    brought up with them, so we don't fall out of line."


      [12] https://github.com/w3c/aria/blob/master/aria/dpub.html

    Ivan: "To have something that puts ARIA clearly into the domain
    of HTML5 - that is a great thing. We also need to ensure all
    our documents are adapted to HTML5

    Tzviya: "There was an update and there was an announcement that
    they want to release ARIA into HTML5"

    karen: "Wanted to build on Ivan's comments - we don't want to
    educate EVERYONE about accessibility, but if there were a
    couple of points - from different perspectives on the
    importance of accessibility. Being able to point out some
    business cases/value proposition that show support for
    accessibility. Put in the Kudos there for everyone who is
    committed to this."

    Tzviya: "Charles - this overlaps with some of the other work
    we're doing in other groups. I'll send an e-mail and copy

    Karen: "i'm happy to talk with charles further about that."

    Ivan: "Another editorial/presentation issue: Something in this
    document should be said about how these things relate to the
    current epub-column-type usage, in longterm and the work done
    in edupub. To relate this to existing work that is going on.
    Don't want people to be completely worried about what's going
    on here."

    <tzviya> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/role-attribute/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/TR/role-attribute/

    Bill: "Is the role attribute confined by what is being defined
    by ARIA, or if a publication can use arbitrary terms within the
    role attribute. Obviously if we unplug epub type to the role

    Tzviya: "ARIA roles are not the only allowed value for roles."

    Matt: "Semantics in roles, if they aren't understood, it will
    default to its' base."

    Bill: "I don't think i'm the only one with that question.
    Pearson and O'Reilly debated where to put this information.
    They ended up putting things in 'class' when they could have
    done it in 'role'."

    Matt: "You'd want to make sure that you prefix things so that
    they don't get picked up or confused."

    Bill: "So, even if you're using role, you'd want to prefix it."



Packaging use cases

    Tzviya: "Started to put together some use cases for packaging.
    All the cases don't address the basics but they are packaging
    requirements required to workflow. Requirements of publishing a
    journal with a dataset; annotations (which borders on having an
    annotations requirement) and how peer-review will factor into
    the publication itself. Share resources - such as CSS files -
    the publication

    should be able to tap into those shared-resources and make the
    streamed download process. If a package contains 12 abstracts,
    the user should be able to access just the abstracts. In
    downloading a package, it would be great if the user/agent
    would recognize what is new content VS existing content, which
    makes offline reading possible."
    ...: "I think Matt is planning on adding more basic use-cases
    for packaging. If you can add additional packaging use-cases,
    we'll be happy to review them."

    Ivan: "What is the roadmap with these use-cases? I think the
    idea would be that we have to see whether these use-cases make
    it into the use-case collection that Yves was talking about a
    few weeks ago on packaging."

    Tzviya: "When we have more use-cases we'll share them with Yves
    and go from there."

    Ivan: "So we should share these use-cases on the list and have

    <tzviya> nickRuffilo: is a DRM use case allowed?

    <tzviya> tzviya: i think it would be OK to explain that
    allowing a hook for encryption is a good use case

    Bill: "I'm on a campaign to discuss Rights Metadata within the
    package. Publishers need to be able to denote rights to
    specific items within a package. So the big question - how do
    we associate rights with different components of the package,
    and how do we get publishers to specify that information."
    ... "For example - photo metadata could be provided in
    different items within

    Charles: "A couple things - under accessibility use cases
    (which is great) what about discoverability using metadata?
    Then a few questions on personalization."

    Tzviya: "Accessibility use-cases have been up for a while, but
    you're welcome to update/add at any time."

    Ivan: "The technology that shall not be named/mentioned - it is
    a use-case that we need to think about and compare with what
    the technology is. That said, and my impression is - if I look
    at the current packaging specification, or if I look at this;
    it is not an issue in the sense that it is a technical problem.
    Adding a part that is the rigth metadata is a key description
    of the encryption

    of the content. All of these things are fairly trivially doable
    within the packaging. They are use-cases that can possibly be
    fulfilled by the current packaging. I don't think the goal is
    to encrypt the package itself, just parts of it. The current
    spec allows you to do that, as you can add any binary data in
    any format or any media type"

    bill: "Sounds like I was conflating two issue - Rights & access
    information. The other is the actual encryption. we already
    have font-obfuscation."

    Tzviya: "Fonts are a big issue that we may have to look at"

    <tzviya> [15]http://www.idpf.org/epub/previews/

      [15] http://www.idpf.org/epub/previews/

NYC f2f reminder

    tzviya: "Reminder - NYC Face-to-face, please add if you are

    ...: "If there are any specific topics taht you'd like to
    discuss, please let us know and comment there so we can

      [16] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/May_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details


    Tzviya: "next week is a European holiday, so no meeting. We
    will resume on 4/13

    <tzviya> 13/4

    April 13th, 2015 to be verbose

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]

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Regrets: Peter Ben Tim Alan Liza Julie Vlad Markus
Agenda: [20]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015M
Found Date: 30 Mar 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [21]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-dpub-minutes.html
People with action items:

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-dpub-minutes.html

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