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[Minutes] 2015-03-02 Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:08:10 +0100
Message-ID: <54F4B51A.3000008@w3.org>
To: "public-digipub-ig@w3.org >> W3C Digital Publishing IG" <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Hi all,

The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 
dated 2015-03-02 are now available at

     http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-minutes.html

These public minutes are also linked from the dpub wiki
     http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings

Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience.

Best,

Thierry Michel

----------------------------------------------


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

             Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

02 Mar 2015

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Mar/0000.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Alan Stearns (Stearns), Tzviya Siegman (tzviya), Brady
           Duga (duga), Charles LaPierre (clapierre),  Dave Cramer
           (dauwhe), Nick Ruffilo (NickRuffilo),  Ivan Herman
           (ivan),  Peter Kreutzberger (pkra), Karen Myers (Karen),
           Deborah Kaplan (dkaplan3), Julie Morris (Julie_Morris),
           Bill Kasdorf (Bill_Kasdorf), Ayla Stein (Ayla_Stein),
           Thierry Michel (tmichel), Ben De Meester (bjdmeest),
           Paul Belfanti (pbelfanti), Markus Gylling (Markus), Mike
           Miller (MikeMiller), Tim Cole (TimCole), Vladimir
           Levantovsky (vlad), Kawakubo (kwkbtr),  Shinyu Murakami
           (murakami), Laura Fowler (lfowler), David Stroup
           (david_stroup), Liza Daly (liza),+1.585.217.aaee,
           +1.617.426.aaaa, +1.217.300.aabb,
           +1.781.970.aacc,+1.646.336.aadd.

    Regrets
           Luc Audrain, Phil Madans, Heather Flanagan

    Chair
           Tzviya Siegman (tzviya)

    Scribe
           Nick Ruffilo

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Houdini
          2. [6]call for comments from CSS WG on CSS fragmentation
             module level 3
          3. [7]epub3.1 work plan
          4. [8]IDPF Workplans
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 02 March 2015

    <NickRuffilo> What are the dial-in instructions again?

    <NickRuffilo> OK i found it, thanks

    <NickRuffilo> Anyone know a web-based way to dial in to the
    call?

    <ivan> scribenick: NickRuffilo

    <tzviya> scribenick: NickRuffilo

    <ivan> scribe: Nick

    I may have to quickly exit, as I have contractors working on my
    heating system, if so, I'll type "!!!!!!"

    Otherwise I'll be scribe for today

    Any notes as first-time scribe? just write what people say?

    Ivan, I'm here

    TY

    <astearns> NickRuffilo: summarize, and don't be shy about
    telling people to shut up so you can catch up

    scribe: Scratch Nick from Regrets list

    <tzviya> [10]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/23-dpub-minutes.html

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2015/02/23-dpub-minutes.html

    Tzviya: "review the minutes from last week, any comments? Alan
    posted something on the list about packaging"
    ...: "Minutes approved..."

Houdini

    ...: "Turn over to Alan and Dave. The magic of CSS + Houdini.
    VINI VIDI VICI"

    "I was at the houdini meeting. Goal is to extend CSS. Cover big
    black box where stuff goes in, stuff comes out. If magic isn't
    what you want, it is difficult to make changes"

    "goal of houdini is to make a script to make it easier to
    understand how a browser lays things out."

    "Lots of things about properties and exposing the parser..."

    <ivan> s/"I was"/Alan: "I was"/

    "Script to be able to handle the new stuff. Also more
    complicated things like exposing where things are being drawn
    in a more robust way than we are doing so far. Also letting
    scripts determine where things will be drawn, or letting
    scripts change the way things are handled. Custom layouts..."

    <astearns>
    [11]http://www.mail-archive.com/dev-servo@lists.mozilla.org/msg
    01131.html

      [11] 
http://www.mail-archive.com/dev-servo@lists.mozilla.org/msg01131.html

    scribe: "Simon Sapin gave a great introduction (link above)
    summarized each of the documents the task for will be working
    on."
    ... "The sense I got was - bunch of enthusiasm, no public NOs,
    but lots of private skeptisism"
    ... "This is a thing to keep track of, to make sure people
    aren't going overboard, but probably less than 1/2 of what was
    discussed will see movement in the next year or so"
    ... "Hopefully I will find others who are interested in pushing
    the little bits and plumbing related items."

    Charles: ? "Red flag - was there any talk of accessibility in
    any of thisLaPierre "

    Alan: "It was discussed, some of this stuff could be useful for
    accessiblity. One message posted to the list yesterday, was
    allowing in custom-layout, having custom line-break. More
    sophisticated outline for better line measures. People are
    doing this today - on canvas - so it loses accessibility."
    ...: "If there is a way to hook into the actual drawing of the
    text, it can make the text displayed nicer with more
    accessibility. But it's always something to consider. Custom
    boxes need to be full citizens with full access, etc..."

    Tzviya: "Dave/alan - can you give us an idea of how this might
    affect digital pub - near/long term."

    <tzviya> vivliostyle summary of Houdini:
    [12]http://vivliostyle.com/2015/02/sydney

      [12] http://vivliostyle.com/2015/02/sydney

    Alan: "Near term there is a new - vivliostyle - that is looking
    to put pagination on top of existing browser using scripting.
    Some of the low-level elements are what they need in order to
    make a 'nice' reading experience in the browser. They were in
    the meeting and will be involved. Their work will be
    accelerated if the lower-level work gets going"
    ....: "Longer term, it may be that some engines that do not
    immediately support a paginated view, but allow a paginated
    view through custom scripts, etc. Some engines may go that
    route."

    Peter: ? "Is the following helpful: I'm in the process of
    organizing in the MathML group - how can MathML move closer to
    other standards? There is lots of duplication. Are these useful
    use-cases for this group that could be related? Altmetrics? API
    has there been any discussion on that?"

    <dauwhe> Peter Linss reports on the Houdini meeting to the TAG:
    [13]https://github.com/w3ctag/meetings/blob/gh-pages/2015/telco
    ns/02-26-houdini-minutes.md#css-extensibilityhoudini

      [13] 
https://github.com/w3ctag/meetings/blob/gh-pages/2015/telcons/02-26-houdini-minutes.md#css-extensibilityhoudini

    Alan: "Going over what voids what MathML needs is a terrific
    topic for the Houdini group. If there are extensions to CSS
    that MathML needs, thats useful. On FontMetrics? that is the
    one document I'm on the hook for, so I'd really like to see
    your requirements about what measurments you'd need from the
    fonts. Also, where you'd need the used-font-info to be used."

    <david_stroup> I'm 585.217

    Alan: "All the info in the world isn't useful if you don't know
    what the browser is actually using. And where they're drawing
    the fonts in the font box."

    Peter - ** Action item - send MathML interests to be discussed
    with the Houdini group

    <tzviya> action gather font metric info from MathWG for Houdini

    <trackbot> Error finding 'gather'. You can review and register
    nicknames at <[14]http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.

      [14] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users

    <ivan> action pkra to gather font metric info from the MathWG
    for Houdini

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Gather font metric info from the
    mathwg for houdini [on Peter Krautzberger - due 2015-03-09].

    Tzviya: "Question to all - what would you like from DPUB going
    forward?"

    Alan? : "If any of you are involved with scripting projects
    that do custom layouts/drawing, that CSS doesn't do today, if
    there are problems/hacks, please let us know/post them to
    Houdini. Will help guide the work that we are doing."
    ...: "Microsoft group is heavily interested in Pagination... As
    with DigiPub..."

    Ivan: "Question is - what kind of time do you expect before we
    will see a result that the publishing world can directly use?
    Taking into account the real-interest from the core
    web-engine/browser vendors..."

    Alan: "Too early to guess. Hasn't been movements on the
    documents since the meeting ended. Best scenario is some
    movement on custom properties in the next few months. The
    adoption will make CSS polyfills MUCH easier to create."
    ...: "Then might see some movement on other items, like
    FontMetrics, but those are the only ones we'll see adoption in
    the next year or so. The rest are long-term planning."
    ... "I'm being pessimistic..."

    Dave: "One more possibly helpful thing - if people see some of
    these ideas as being useful to them - talk to the iBooks team
    couldn't hurt anyway.
    ...: "Would get webkit to work on some of these features..."
    ... "Also note that Houdini was discussed at the tags meeting
    as well."
    ... "IRC logs for that meeting [can someone post link?] might
    provide some useful perspective"

call for comments from CSS WG on CSS fragmentation module level 3

    Tzviya: "Next time - call for comments on Working Draft of CSS
    Fragmentation Module Level 3"

    <tzviya> [15]http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-break/

      [15] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-break/

    <pkra> bedtime reading.

    !!!!!! - have to go, scribe out

    <ivan> scribenick: tzviya

    <ivan> scribenick: liza

    <tzviya> volunteers to review and comment: brady, liza

    <ivan> scribenick: tzviya

    <liza> SOUNDS THRILLING

    ivan: how does this relate to Houdini?

    astearns: Rossen sees a need for additional breaking
    opportunities, but needs to fill in what that need is

    tzviya: will the fragmentation spec serve as a stop-gap?

    astearns: Frag spec includes some really good information for
    how to break pages, etc. But, Brady's use cases have many more
    requirements
    ... such as letting a script know where a page starts
    ... this will be filled in by Houdini in the Fragment Tree doc

    <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

    <ivan> scribenick: dauwhe

epub3.1 work plan

IDPF Workplans

    tzviya: this came up at edupub meeting in sunny Arizona

    <Ayla_Stein> Wait until May/June

    <ivan> scribenick: NickRuffilo

    <dauwhe> scribenick: NickRuffilo

    <pbelfanti> Apologies, I need to drop

    <ivan> Markus' slides from the meeting:
    [16]http://bit.ly/1AwoYW4

      [16] http://bit.ly/1AwoYW4

    Tzviya: "Epub 3.1 was released severl months ago. Bug fixes,
    and ISO wording + backwards compatibiliyt. Marcus opened up
    floor for next version. There was lots of discussion about what
    might be done, no formal decisions. 3d format as a core media
    type. Migration of epub type to role attribute. Expression
    extended presentations from doc..."
    ...: "One example - using the filmstrip to see what document
    looks like on the inside. Some possible deprication of things
    for epub - such as switch tag. No discussion on timeline, so
    not sure when work is getting started."

    <pkra> yes.
    ...: "Goal of ePub 3 is to go in a webby-ier direction. So the
    work is towards a convergence."

    Brady: "At this point, we're still trying to decide what the
    direction of 3.1 is, so if you have a voice, we can hear it.
    Gathering requirements is now. Not sure on direction as we're
    listening."

    Tzviya: If you think something is missing, please comment. CSS
    Profile?
    ... Contact Marcus with your thoughts/suggestions. No official
    timeline

    <david_stroup> Apologies, I need to drop as well...

    Bill_Kasdorf_Kasdorf: Instead of providing ways to embed more
    and more metadata within the epub, be able to embed a link to
    an authoritative service [nick - such as DOI, etc]
    ...: One reason I bring this up, is that it relates to recent
    identifiers work
    ... Grand total of 1 volunteer for Identifier work, so if you
    want to help PLEASE do

    Ivan: "Was on the road + Thierry was on vacations. I will work
    with you."

    Thierry: "I have created the Identifier wiki : Link below:"

    <tmichel> the identifiers wiki is linked from the wiki main
    page

    <tmichel> [17]http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Main_Page

      [17] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Main_Page

    <tmichel> and is available at
    [18]http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers

      [18] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers

    Julie: "Are there clear timelines on the taskforce page as to
    when they are starting?"

    Tzviya: "Cleanup is needed, we need to work on this. "

    ...: " This is the beginning of conference season, but we
    should work on updating timelines and making sure that data on
    the wiki is accurate"
    ... " Maybe next meeting have a check-in with task forces to
    ensure updated data."

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version
     1.140 ([20]CVS log)
     $Date: 2015-03-02 19:00:49 $
      __________________________________________________________

      [19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/"I was"/Alan: "I was"/
Succeeded: s/Simone? Sipan/Simon Sapin/
Succeeded: s/?/LaPierre/
Succeeded: s/bibliostyle/vivliostyle/
Succeeded: s/???/Rossen/
Succeeded: s/by Houdini/by Houdini in the Fragment Tree doc/
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WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Nick> ...
Found ScribeNick: NickRuffilo
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Found Scribe: Nick
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Found ScribeNick: liza
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Found ScribeNick: tzviya
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Found ScribeNick: dauwhe
Found ScribeNick: NickRuffilo
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ScribeNicks: NickRuffilo, tzviya, liza, dauwhe
Present: Ben_De_Meester

WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!


WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Heather, Nick, Phil
)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the lis
t,
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Luc

Regrets: Luc
Agenda: [22]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015M
ar/0000.html

      [22] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Mar/0000.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 02 Mar 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [23]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-minutes.html
People with action items:

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-minutes.html


    [End of [24]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Monday, 2 March 2015 19:08:20 UTC

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