[Minutes] 2015-01-12Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Hi all,

The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 
dated 2015-01-12 are now available at

     http://www.w3.org/2015/01/12-dpub-minutes.html

These public minutes are also linked from the dpub wiki
     http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings

Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience.

Best,

Thierry Michel

---------------------------------------------------------


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

             Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

12 Jan 2015

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/12-dpub-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Ben de Meester (bjdmeest), Karen Myers (Karen_Myers),
           Markus Gylling (Markus), Tzviya Siegman (tzviya), Toru
           Kawakubo (kwkbtr), AylaStein (aylaStein), Dave Cramer
           (dauwhe), Heather Flanagan (HeatherF), Vladimir
           Levantovsky (Vlad), Liza Daly (liza), Thierry Michel
           (tmichel), Rob Sanderson (azaroth),  Deborah Kaplan
           (dkaplan3),  Liam Quin (Liam), Madi Solomon (madi)

    Regrets
           Laura Fowler, Susann Keohane, Michael Miller, Tim Cole,
           Luc Audrain, Phil Madans, Duga Brady, David  Stroup,
           Frederick Hirsch, Julie Morris, Peter Kreutzberger, Ivan
           Herman, Tim Clark, Bill Kasdorf , Alan Stearns, Charles
           LaPierre

    Chair
           Markus Gylling (Markus)

    Scribe
           Tzviya Siegman (tzviya)

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]W3C publications relevant to publishing
          2. [5]project Houdini
      * [6]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <mgylling> trackbot, start telecon

    <trackbot> Date: 12 January 2015

    <HeatherF> I'm usually IP_Caller (or some such thing) to start
    - not sure how to fix it since I came on before the trackbot?

    <azaroth> Morning :)

    <scribe> scribenick: tzviya

    <aylaStein> That's Ayla Stein

    <kwkbtr> Thank you!

    kwbtr: joining from Vivliostyle for first time

    <mgylling> * Approval of last week's minutes [1]

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

    <mgylling> * Cancel call next week? (MLK day in US)

    <mgylling> * Move to public wiki:
    [7]https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/W3C_specs_for_DPUB

       [7] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/W3C_specs_for_DPUB

    <mgylling> * Houdini project: digital publishing requirements

    <kwkbtr> This is Toru Kawakubo from Vivliostyle

    Welcome Vivliostyle!

    last week's minutes:
    [8]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/22-dpub-minutes.html

       [8] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/22-dpub-minutes.html

    approved

    <aylaStein> Yes

    <liza> Safari's off

    <HeatherF> No preference on my part.

    <azaroth> sadly, Stanford is open

    <Karen> MIT is closed

    <aylaStein> UIUC is closed

    <Vlad> Monotype is closed

    MLK day in USA: cancel meeting

W3C publications relevant to publishing

    Markus: Thierry and Ivan recommend moving
    [9]https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/W3C_specs_for_DPUB to public
    wiki

       [9] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/W3C_specs_for_DPUB

    tmichel: currently, the document is on DPUB IG wiki, question
    is whether to move this to public wiki that is editable by
    anyone with an account
    ... or should we keep it restricted to W3C/DPUB IG members, as
    currently?
    ... and, is DPUB-IG satisfied with content fo this doc?

    markus: if one of us would like to update, we can edit in the
    wiki

    tmichel: we will keep an eye on it, if it is a public space

    <tmichel> review the document until the next call

    <tmichel> +1

    <aylaStein> +1

    <bjdmeest> +1

    <liza> +1

    <tmichel> next call in two weeks

    markus: homework for IG to review/edit the document until next
    call, at which point we will make public

    <liza> I'll volunteer to explicitly review it

    <tmichel> People should also voice if they are not satisfied
    with moving the document to a public wiki.

project Houdini

    <liza> (I'd like to write a blog post with some narrative
    around it when it's public anyway, so this will be good
    homework)

    dauwhe: Project Houdini is very technical
    ... initial meeting is in Australia 7-8 Feb
    ... joint meeting between CSS WG and TAG
    ... objective of task force is to explain the magic of layout
    on the web
    ... people are starting to look for ways of extending CSS in
    the same way that HTML can be extended via ShadowDOM, JS, etc
    ... to date this has been impossible

    <mgylling> +regrets Frederick Hirsch

    dauwhe: one aspect of this is the BoxTree API
    ... people have been creating numerous nested boxes and
    positioning them
    ... Boxtree provides a model for that

    <mgylling> +regrets David Stroup

    ,,,Another part is a method of manipulating the CSS Object
    Model (CSSOM)

    scribe: there is interest in rewriting the CSSOM from scratch
    as the existing model is difficult
    ... one thought for this meeting is to get an idea of what
    people want from this effort
    ... one example that came up last week is font metrics

    <pkra> darn I want to dial in now...

    <dauwhe_> wiki [10]https://wiki.css-houdini.org/main

      [10] https://wiki.css-houdini.org/main

    <dauwhe_> mailing list:
    [11]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-houdini/

      [11] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-houdini/

    markus: when is the meeting?

    dauwhe: 7 - 8 Feb, adjacent but separate from CSS WG

    <Karen> Tzviya: I am wondering from DigPub perspective, is
    there anything you need from us?

    <Karen> …Our most pressing issue is Fragmentation issues

    <Karen> …Brady wrote something up

    <Karen> …Ivan is concerned things not get lost in the shuffle

    <Karen> …What is it that we should be doing?

    <Karen> Dave: I am not sure on that

    <Karen> …I will be there, Peter there

    <Karen> …This use case is definitely going to get some
    attentoion

    <Karen> …not sure yet what direction

    Dauwhe: some of information is coming from Google
    ... there will be some loud voices making sure that pagination
    is address

    markus: help me understand scope of Houdini
    ... accessing a refreshed CSS with JS is one thing, boxtree is
    another
    ... would a fundamental issue such as pagination be scripted,
    not declarative?

    dauwhe: some of ideas are heavily influenced by extensible web
    manifesto
    ... which advoactes for experimenting

    <mgylling> Brady’s pagination requirements page:
    [12]https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements

      [12] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements

    dauwhe: and polyfilling. The polyfills can evolve into standars

    extensible web manifesto
    [13]https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/

      [13] https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/

    <dauwhe_> TabAtkins: We'll nail things down more explicitly in
    the first meeting, but the idea is that our current approach of
    delivering a new layout mode every 5 years or so isn't
    sustainable; they're too complex and the whole thing is too
    slow. Beyond core "layout modes" (like Flexbox, etc) there's a
    lot of other stuff that generally falls under the rubric of
    "box-tree manipulation" (like Regions, and the constellation of
    functionality surrounding their

    <dauwhe_> core concept, like running headers, footnotes, etc.)
    which, again, takes a long time to go from "idea" to "usable on
    mass-market websites".

    <dauwhe_> TabAtkins: While there's still value in finding the
    highest-impact stuff in this realm and standardizing it with
    CSS syntax, we feel that for CSS to continue to be viable in
    the future, we need to open up these sorts of APIs to
    developers more directly, allowing them to define their own
    layout managers/etc with lower-level box-creation/manipulation
    primitives. This TF's goal is to figure out how to do this in a
    way that's compatible with the perf

    <dauwhe_> concerns of today's and tomorrow's browsers.

    markus: we have dave, alan, peter linss, vivliostyle. is it
    correct to assume then that we do not need to worry about
    publishing being dropped on the floor? Do we need to rally?

    dauwhe: for now, we are OK. We may need to rally in the future

    markus: Brady's use cases
    ([14]https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements)
    are applicable use cases
    ... at the very least, we need to get Brady and other
    contributors to flesh out the use cases

      [14] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements%29

    action markus talk to Brady about fleshing out the pagination
    use cases

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Talk to brady about fleshing out
    the pagination use cases [on Markus Gylling - due 2015-01-19].

    markus: are there any other items that we should prepare to
    have ready for Houdini?

    dauwhe: we might get a lot more capability to intercept and
    process CSS, which might offer reading systems processing power
    ... for things like user style sheets

    markus: it might be a good idea to break the personalization
    use cases out of brady's use cases and present them separately

    [15]https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Accessibility_and_Personali
    zation

      [15] https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Accessibility_and_Personalization

    tzviya: we have use cases related to personalization as regards
    to accessibility
    ... we should try to consolidate the 2 sets of use cases

    markus: other topics?

    dauwhe: there might be smaller categories
    ... math layout for example
    ... how does one display chemML in a browser? There might be
    several things required for polyfills
    ... If we started to have access to layout primitives, new
    things might be possible

    Tzviya: Peter Krautzberger probably will have something to add
    in the area

    ,,,issues in STEM often involve extending table rendering,
    fonts for chemistry, etc

    markus: what is a good term?
    ... maybe the best place to start is with Peter K and STEM use
    cases
    ... it does not sound STEM-specific

    +1

    tzviya: another area that can be difficult is infographics

    markus: that might be solved with SVG
    ... we have a meanwhile plan to collect use cases
    ... brady on pagination, consolidate personalization, and talk
    to Peter K about STEM
    ... and Dave will be our conduit to CSS WG :)

    karen: is anyone going to Digital Book World?

    <mgylling> +regrets Brady

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [16]scribe.perl version
     1.140 ([17]CVS log)
     $Date: 2015-01-12 17:22:36 $
      __________________________________________________________

      [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30
Check for newer version at [18]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
scribe/

      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: tzviya
Inferring Scribes: tzviya
Present: Ben_De_Meester

WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!

Regrets: Charles_LaPierre Bill_Kasdorf Alan_Stearns Ivan_Herman Peter_Kr
autzberger Phil_Madans Luc_Audrain Tim_Cole Laura_Fowler Susanne_Keohane
  Michael_Miller

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 12 Jan 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [19]http://www.w3.org/2015/01/12-dpub-minutes.html
People with action items:

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/12-dpub-minutes.html


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      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

Received on Monday, 12 January 2015 17:27:15 UTC