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Re: i18n review

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:24:51 +0000
Message-ID: <54D0E843.7010700@w3.org>
To: Liza Daly <liza@safaribooksonline.com>, "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" <rse@rfc-editor.org>
CC: "public-digipub-ig@w3.org" <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Thanks, Heather and Liza, for looking at that wiki page. See comments 
below...

On 02/02/2015 21:27, Liza Daly wrote:
> Thanks Heather. My feedback was just identifying some gaps:
>
> The primary gap I could identify is in page styling. Running heads and
> footers are addressed, as is page-progression, but nothing about
> widows/orphans or page breaking generally. This is probably the most
> relevant for ereaders specifically.

I added something about that.
https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Improving_typography_on_the_Web_and_in_eBooks#Page_layout_and_pagination


> This is extremely minor, but I also wondered if there should be more
> specific discussion of user-agent behavior relative to layout semantics.
> There's mention of double-click to highlight a word (which requires
> understanding of word boundaries), but not triple-click that highlights
> a paragraph (which may vary among writing systems).

The introductory paras are really just to give some initial examples of 
relevant topics, rather than to list them exhaustively, but I did add 
the following sentence. "Should triple-clicking select a paragraph, etc.? "

> Finally, I wonder if quotations (as in blockquote behavior) needed any
> special consideration. There are typographic conventions for blockquotes
> in Latin text (indented block), but I didn't see a mention here. Are
> there non-Latin traditions for laying out long quotations that are
> different from the current default of an indented block?

This reminded me that quotation marks are definitely handled 
differently, particularly when nesting.  I added a new section, Quotations
https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Improving_typography_on_the_Web_and_in_eBooks#Quotations

I also plan to add a section about punctuation in general, since I think 
that may be useful.

> Of the three, I think only the first one is really significant enough
> for this group to consider expanding on.
>
> Liza
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
> <rse@rfc-editor.org <mailto:rse@rfc-editor.org>> wrote:
>
>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>     Hash: SHA1
>
>
>     Hello all,
>
>     Sorry I couldn't make it on the call today!  Here my initial thoughts
>     regarding the i18n WG's text layout page.  The short, short version:
>     it's worth promoting, but it needs more coverage.
>
>     I think Liza is going to add more to this summary when she has time.
>
>     "Improving text layout and typography on the Web and in eBooks"
>     <https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Improving_typography_on_the_Web_and_in_eBooks>
>     is something that the DPUB community should be aware of as they think
>     about both the tools in the publication process and the reader software
>     consuming non-English language material.  The "Improving text layout"
>     page is more of an index, almost an FAQ, that provides pointers to
>     specific areas in the detailed documentation (e.g., Indic layout,
>     Japanese layout, Hangul layout).  There is a notable lack, however, in
>     language groups covering Arabic, Hebrew, Cyrillic, etc.  The W3C is
>     aware of the lack and looking for volunteers to help tighten up the
>     gaps.  A useful action out of DPUB could be to help prioritize language
>     groups (are there any particular script gaps that are causing specific
>     difficulty) and helping find experts to help fill the holes.

It would be great if you could help us identify experts to work on other 
scripts.  We particularly need help with Arabic, but it's a very wide 
field (with Persian and Urdu being significantly different from 
'standard' Arabic, for example, and different styles of Arabic too), 
it's likely to involve significant differences depending on the type of 
Arabic content, and it seems that the experts are not all of one mind on 
even some fairly basic things.  Also, there's no simple central 
authority to pull things together.

But we can only try to move forward...


>     Unfortunately, I don't know enough about non-Latin scripts to suggest
>     specific areas where DPUB should be targeting in the existing layout
>     guides; what I see is the gap introduced by a limited number of layout
>     guides.

What may also help is another wiki page i just created (i've been 
thinking to do it for a while already) called 'Links to text layout and 
typography information'
https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Layout_links

The idea is to point to information by experts on the Web that may be 
useful until we analyse and codify it into a set of W3C requirements.

I just put in a few links off the top of my head so far. If others have 
additional links to add, please let me know.

hope that helps,
ri
Received on Tuesday, 3 February 2015 15:25:07 UTC

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