- From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
- Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:04:44 +0200
- To: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, "Stein, Ayla" <astein@illinois.edu>
- CC: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
+1! Luc Luc Audrain Hachette Livre Direction Innovation et Technologie Numérique 11, rue Paul Bert, 92240 Malakoff Fixe : +33 (0) 1 4123 6370 Mobile : +33 (0) 6 48 38 21 41 Le 08/04/2015 16:55, « Bill Kasdorf » <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com> a écrit : >This issue is mainly pertinent to publications originally published in >print and only later provided in digital form. There are of course >millions of such publications in libraries, which is the main domain of >the HathiTrust. > >The reason this is important is that there are four primary use cases >characteristic of this "print is the version of record" situation: > >--The indexes in print books typically (though not universally) point to >arbitrary points in the content: the print page breaks. >--Cross-references in the text of print books typically refer to print >page breaks. >--Citations in the literature (very important in scholarship) point to >print page breaks. >--The accessibility community strongly advocates the recording of print >page breaks in digital versions of print publications, particularly >textbooks, so that when the teacher says "turn to page 53" the >print-disabled user can find that spot (as can any user of the digital >version). > >While most W3C folks would argue that this is a relic of print-based >publishing (and it is), and would argue that these should be replaced >with real links to meaningful points in the content, not to something as >arbitrary as a print page break (which is indisputably better), it >unfortunately happens to be a real need when we are in this transitional >phase; and all of those millions of old books, and the citations to their >pages, do actually exist. So it really does turn out to be useful to have >"markers" in a digital file designating where the print page breaks >are--accompanied, btw, with an ability to designate _which_ print edition >the markers refer to. > >As distasteful as that is to digerati like us. ;-) > >And btw, in the context of EPUB-WEB, for these very reasons (especially >the accessibility issue), providing such print page break markers is >recommended in the EDUPUB spec, which provides a recommended syntax for >the marker. It doesn't attempt to contain the page with a >start-and-end-tag pair, because you run into well-formedness issues; >instead, it just provides an empty element that says, in effect, "page 53 >in the print book starts here." > >--Bill K > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org] >Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 4:30 AM >To: Stein, Ayla >Cc: Thierry Michel; Bill Kasdorf; W3C Digital Publishing IG >Subject: Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF wiki > >Thank you Ayla. > >Without going into the details of the proposal, the question it raises to >me, as part of the EPUB-WEB discussion, is what is the role (if any) of >an identifier that identifies a *page*. Indeed, depending on the style of >the online document, a page is > >* a very ephemeral entity and thereby it is not really a suitable target >for an identifier (a flowing book, whose pagination is based on user >interaction, is the obvious example) >* a fixed entity, ie, for fixed layout document > >it strikes me that an identifier approach for an EPUB-WEB document needs >to cover the second item, too. AFAIK, CFI can do that only if the fixed >layout document is organized in terms of a series of separate files >within the package, but that may not cover all the cases (e.g., if a >presentation slide show is stored as a portable document, and the >'pagination' is the result of a javascript running on one single source). > >Whether the approach taken by the HathiTrust document is the right one >(as far as I could understand from a cursory look it assigns a UDDI type >URN to each page, which is then combined with the identifier of a >'volume') is a different question. I am not sure this is a general >solution but I guess the more general questions are certainly valid! > >Thanks again > >Ivan > > >> On 07 Apr 2015, at 20:21 , Stein, Ayla <astein@illinois.edu> wrote: >> >> Matt's comment about content version reminded me of some ongoing work >>at the HathiTrust Research Center. One of the problems they're looking >>into is identifying an object at a specific point in time. Their initial >>proposal document discusses several different issues regarding >>identifiers in HTRC and can be accessed here: >>https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/73147. I've also added it as >>an attachment to this email. >> >> I know there's also been some work on a prototype for identifying >>versions, but the draft of that document is not yet available for >>circulation. While these aren't necessarily solutions that can be >>implemented here, I think it's of interest and relevance to this >>discussion. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ayla >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org] >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:32 AM >> To: Thierry Michel >> Cc: Bill Kasdorf; W3C Digital Publishing IG >> Subject: Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF >> wiki >> >> >>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 09:30 , Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >>> >>> I have added the media fragment URI to the wiki with few examples. >>>Thierry, if you want to add something, please do at: >> >> Sorry, pushed the send button too soon: >> >> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers#W3C.E2.80.99s_ >> Media_Fragment >> >> Thanks >> >> ivan >> >>> >>> >>>> On 23 Mar 2015, at 08:20 , Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill, >>>> >>>> I would also suggest Media Fragments URI 1.0 It specifies the syntax >>>> for constructing media fragment URIs and explains how to handle them >>>>when used over the HTTP protocol. >>>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-media-frags-20120925/ >>>> a W3C Recommendation 25 September 2012. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> thierry. >>>> >>>> On 22/03/2015 17:51, Bill Kasdorf wrote: >>>>> Thanks to Tzviya, we have some substantive content for review on >>>>> the Identifiers TF wiki at [1]. >>>>> >>>>> This initial draft of background information gives brief >>>>> descriptions, links, discussion, and examples of three possible >>>>> options for consideration as the basis for our initial work on a >>>>>Fragment Identifier: >>>>> >>>>> --EPUB CFI >>>>> >>>>> --W3C Packaging for the Web Fragment Identifiers >>>>> >>>>> --The Open Annotations Fragment Selector >>>>> >>>>> In addition, there's a placeholder for XPath, and we need to >>>>> collect suggestions for other relevant specs or technologies to >>>>> take into account, e.g. XPointer. >>>>> >>>>> Please take a look at this before the Monday IG call and suggest >>>>> any others we should add. Feel free to add a placeholder (ideally >>>>> with a >>>>> link) if you aren't prepared to add the prose. >>>>> >>>>> And although we now have a good list of participants in this TF, >>>>> please add your name if you'd like to participate as well. We will >>>>> discuss next steps on the call Monday, which will probably involve >>>>> a TF conference call later this week if we can find a time that >>>>>works for everybody. >>>>> >>>>> --Bill K >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers#Background >>>>> >>>>> Bill Kasdorf >>>>> >>>>> Vice President, Apex Content Solutions >>>>> >>>>> Apex CoVantage >>>>> >>>>> W: +1 734-904-6252 >>>>> >>>>> M: +1 734-904-6252 >>>>> >>>>> @BillKasdorf <http://twitter.com/#!/BillKasdorf> // >>>>> >>>>> _bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com_ >>>>> >>>>> ISNI: 0000 0001 1649 0786__ >>>>> >>>>> https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786 >>>>> <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en> >>>>> >>>>> www.apexcovantage.com <http://www.apexcovantage.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Corporate Logo-Copy >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> Ivan Herman, W3C >>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead >>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>> mobile: +31-641044153 >>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ---- >> Ivan Herman, W3C >> Digital Publishing Activity Lead >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >> mobile: +31-641044153 >> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 >> >> >> >> >> <IdentifiersProposal.pdf> > > >---- >Ivan Herman, W3C >Digital Publishing Activity Lead >Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >mobile: +31-641044153 >ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 > > > > >
Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2015 15:06:15 UTC