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Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF wiki

From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:04:44 +0200
To: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, "Stein, Ayla" <astein@illinois.edu>
CC: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D14B101A.47968%laudrain@hachette-livre.fr>
+1!
Luc

Luc Audrain
Hachette Livre
Direction Innovation et Technologie Numérique
11, rue Paul Bert, 92240 Malakoff
Fixe : +33 (0) 1 4123 6370
Mobile : +33 (0) 6 48 38 21 41





Le 08/04/2015 16:55, « Bill Kasdorf » <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com> a écrit
:

>This issue is mainly pertinent to publications originally published in
>print and only later provided in digital form. There are of course
>millions of such publications in libraries, which is the main domain of
>the HathiTrust.
>
>The reason this is important is that there are four primary use cases
>characteristic of this "print is the version of record" situation:
>
>--The indexes in print books typically (though not universally) point to
>arbitrary points in the content: the print page breaks.
>--Cross-references in the text of print books typically refer to print
>page breaks.
>--Citations in the literature (very important in scholarship) point to
>print page breaks.
>--The accessibility community strongly advocates the recording of print
>page breaks in digital versions of print publications, particularly
>textbooks, so that when the teacher says "turn to page 53" the
>print-disabled user can find that spot (as can any user of the digital
>version).
>
>While most W3C folks would argue that this is a relic of print-based
>publishing (and it is), and would argue that these should be replaced
>with real links to meaningful points in the content, not to something as
>arbitrary as a print page break (which is indisputably better), it
>unfortunately happens to be a real need when we are in this transitional
>phase; and all of those millions of old books, and the citations to their
>pages, do actually exist. So it really does turn out to be useful to have
>"markers" in a digital file designating where the print page breaks
>are--accompanied, btw, with an ability to designate _which_ print edition
>the markers refer to.
>
>As distasteful as that is to digerati like us. ;-)
>
>And btw, in the context of EPUB-WEB, for these very reasons (especially
>the accessibility issue), providing such print page break markers is
>recommended in the EDUPUB spec, which provides a recommended syntax for
>the marker. It doesn't attempt to contain the page with a
>start-and-end-tag pair, because you run into well-formedness issues;
>instead, it just provides an empty element that says, in effect, "page 53
>in the print book starts here."
>
>--Bill K
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 4:30 AM
>To: Stein, Ayla
>Cc: Thierry Michel; Bill Kasdorf; W3C Digital Publishing IG
>Subject: Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF wiki
>
>Thank you Ayla.
>
>Without going into the details of the proposal, the question it raises to
>me, as part of the EPUB-WEB discussion, is what is the role (if any) of
>an identifier that identifies a *page*. Indeed, depending on the style of
>the online document, a page is
>
>* a very ephemeral entity and thereby it is not really a suitable target
>for an identifier (a flowing book, whose pagination is based on user
>interaction, is the obvious example)
>* a fixed entity, ie, for fixed layout document
>
>it strikes me that an identifier approach for an EPUB-WEB document needs
>to cover the second item, too. AFAIK, CFI can do that only if the fixed
>layout document is organized in terms of a series of separate files
>within the package, but that may not cover all the cases (e.g., if a
>presentation slide show is stored as a portable document, and the
>'pagination' is the result of a javascript running on one single source).
>
>Whether the approach taken by the HathiTrust document is the right one
>(as far as I could understand from a cursory look it assigns a UDDI type
>URN to each page, which is then combined with the identifier of a
>'volume') is a different question. I am not sure this is a general
>solution but I guess the more general questions are certainly valid!
>
>Thanks again
>
>Ivan
>
>
>> On 07 Apr 2015, at 20:21 , Stein, Ayla <astein@illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Matt's comment about content version reminded me of some ongoing work
>>at the HathiTrust Research Center. One of the problems they're looking
>>into is identifying an object at a specific point in time. Their initial
>>proposal document discusses several different issues regarding
>>identifiers in HTRC and can be accessed here:
>>https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/73147. I've also added it as
>>an attachment to this email.
>> 
>> I know there's also been some work on a prototype for identifying
>>versions, but the draft of that document is not yet available for
>>circulation. While these aren't necessarily solutions that can be
>>implemented here, I think it's of interest and relevance to this
>>discussion.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Ayla
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ivan Herman [mailto:ivan@w3.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:32 AM
>> To: Thierry Michel
>> Cc: Bill Kasdorf; W3C Digital Publishing IG
>> Subject: Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF
>> wiki
>> 
>> 
>>> On 24 Mar 2015, at 09:30 , Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have added the media fragment URI to the wiki with few examples.
>>>Thierry, if you want to add something, please do at:
>> 
>> Sorry, pushed the send button too soon:
>> 
>> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers#W3C.E2.80.99s_
>> Media_Fragment
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> ivan
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 23 Mar 2015, at 08:20 , Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Bill,
>>>> 
>>>> I would also suggest Media Fragments URI 1.0 It specifies the syntax
>>>> for constructing media fragment URIs and explains how to handle them
>>>>when used over the HTTP protocol.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-media-frags-20120925/
>>>> a W3C Recommendation 25 September 2012.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> thierry.
>>>> 
>>>> On 22/03/2015 17:51, Bill Kasdorf wrote:
>>>>> Thanks to Tzviya, we have some substantive content for review on
>>>>> the Identifiers TF wiki at [1].
>>>>> 
>>>>> This initial draft of background information gives brief
>>>>> descriptions, links, discussion, and examples of three possible
>>>>> options for consideration as the basis for our initial work on a
>>>>>Fragment Identifier:
>>>>> 
>>>>> --EPUB CFI
>>>>> 
>>>>> --W3C Packaging for the Web Fragment Identifiers
>>>>> 
>>>>> --The Open Annotations Fragment Selector
>>>>> 
>>>>> In addition, there's a placeholder for XPath, and we need to
>>>>> collect suggestions for other relevant specs or technologies to
>>>>> take into account, e.g. XPointer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please take a look at this before the Monday IG call and suggest
>>>>> any others we should add. Feel free to add a placeholder (ideally
>>>>> with a
>>>>> link) if you aren't prepared to add the prose.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And although we now have a good list of participants in this TF,
>>>>> please add your name if you'd like to participate as well. We will
>>>>> discuss next steps on the call Monday, which will probably involve
>>>>> a TF conference call later this week if we can find a time that
>>>>>works for everybody.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Bill K
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers#Background
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill Kasdorf
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vice President, Apex Content Solutions
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apex CoVantage
>>>>> 
>>>>> W: +1 734-904-6252
>>>>> 
>>>>> M: +1 734-904-6252
>>>>> 
>>>>> @BillKasdorf <http://twitter.com/#!/BillKasdorf> //
>>>>> 
>>>>> _bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com_
>>>>> 
>>>>> ISNI: 0000 0001 1649 0786__
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786
>>>>> <https://orcid.org/0000-0001-7002-4786?lang=en>
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.apexcovantage.com <http://www.apexcovantage.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Corporate Logo-Copy
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <IdentifiersProposal.pdf>
>
>
>----
>Ivan Herman, W3C
>Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>mobile: +31-641044153
>ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2015 15:06:15 UTC

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