W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-digipub-ig@w3.org > November 2014

Re: Liza's review of Pages EPUB export

From: Markus Gylling <markus.gylling@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:43:20 +0100
Message-ID: <546CD6B8.7040504@gmail.com>
To: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>
CC: Liza Daly <liza@safaribooksonline.com>, "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, George Walkley <george.walkley@hachette.co.uk>, "Belfanti, Paul" <paul.belfanti@pearson.com>, Livio Mondini <l.mondini@webprofession.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
According to some sources, its EPUB3 now, not 2:
http://www.macworld.com/article/2140800/making-ebooks-in-pages-5-2-heres-what-works-now-and-what-still-doesnt.html

I have not reviewed the tool either btw so dont take my word for it...

/markus
> Bill Kasdorf <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>
> 19 Nov 2014 17:09
>
> Go for it!! ;-)
>
> And please let us know when you've done that! In the meantime, the 
> fact that this is an EPUB 2 export that is quite decent is still very 
> useful, especially for the types of documents typically authored in Pages.
>
> *From:*Liza Daly [mailto:liza@safaribooksonline.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:07 AM
> *To:* Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
> *Cc:* Bill Kasdorf; George Walkley; Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini; 
> Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: Liza's review of Pages EPUB export
>
> Ha! I don't mind revising it; it's amazingly old.
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken 
> <tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:
>
> It's important to note that Liza wrote this before EPUB 3 existed.  
> One of us should take a closer look at this with EPUB 3+ eyes. I'm 
> sure Liza and I have a lot of spare time to do this together J.
>
> ****************************
>
> Tzviya Siegman * Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead * John 
> Wiley & Sons, Inc.
>
> 111 River Street, MS 5-02 * Hoboken, NJ 07030-5774 * 201-748-6884 
> <tel:201-748-6884> * tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>
>
> *From:*Bill Kasdorf [mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com 
> <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:41 AM
> *To:* George Walkley; Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini
> *Cc:* Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG; 
> 'liza@safaribooksonline.com <mailto:liza@safaribooksonline.com>'
> *Subject:* RE: Liza's review of Pages EPUB export
>
> Thanks too for this---this link is going in my presentation (and its 
> accompanying report) too.
>
> Also note how key the style names are. This is fundamental. It's why 
> when I work on modeling for clients I start way upstream with the 
> vocabulary for the components. You want to retain that all through the 
> workflow as much as possible, starting with editing. You wouldn't 
> believe how much easier this makes everything.
>
> Which gets us right into our structural semantics vs. content 
> semantics discussion. Liza's example of the behavior associated with 
> the Chapter Name style  (wrt chunking, NCX, nav, toc, etc.) vs. the 
> behavior associated with the Chapter Subtitle style couldn't be a 
> clearer example.
>
> Copying Liza because her ears must be burning.
>
> Thanks, Liza!
>
> --Bill K
>
> *From:*George Walkley [mailto:george.walkley@hachette.co.uk]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:41 AM
> *To:* Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini
> *Cc:* Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
>
> @liza took a look at this when the feature was first introduced:
>
> https://blog.safaribooksonline.com/2010/08/26/test-driving-apple-pages-with-epub-export/
>
> *From: *<Belfanti>, Paul <paul.belfanti@pearson.com 
> <mailto:paul.belfanti@pearson.com>>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:49
> *To: *Livio Mondini <l.mondini@webprofession.com 
> <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>>
> *Cc: *Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Digital 
> Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
> *Resent-From: *<public-digipub-ig@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:50
>
> And does it generate a valid EPUB 3? One that would pass epubcheck?
>
> Either way, it's good/interesting news.
>
>
> *Paul*
> -- 
> Paul Belfanti
> Director, Content Architecture
> Core Platforms & Enterprise Architecture
> office: +1 201-236-7746 <tel:%2B1%20201-236-7746>
> mobile: +1 201-783-4884 <tel:%2B1%20201-783-4884>
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Livio Mondini 
> <l.mondini@webprofession.com <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree, many blind people that i know do the same finding much more 
> confortable with HTML. But have you looked at what sort of html Pages 
> generate?
> Livio
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org 
> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
>
> I realized today a strange thing when using Mac' Pages program (that 
> is a Word-like program for Mac, produced by Apple, although infinitely 
> simpler than Word). Pages has various export functionalities. To my 
> surprise, it does not have an HTML export; to my even greater (and 
> pleasant) surprise, it has an EPUB export. Which makes sense if the 
> document contains drawings, for example.
>
> This is pretty much in line with our thoughts on epub.next, and also 
> has a side effect. If one wants simply an HTML from a text only page, 
> then generate the EPUB, unzip it, and there you have the HTML...
>
> :-)
>
> Ivan
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
> Click here <https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ==> 
> to report this email as spam.
>
> For company information please visit http://www.hachette.co.uk 
> <http://www.hachette.co.uk/> or write to:
>
> Hachette UK Limited, 338 Euston Road, London, NW1 3BH. Registered in 
> England and Wales under company no. 2020173.
>
> Liza Daly <mailto:liza@safaribooksonline.com>
> 19 Nov 2014 17:06
> Ha! I don't mind revising it; it's amazingly old.
>
>
> Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>
> 19 Nov 2014 16:55
>
> It's important to note that Liza wrote this before EPUB 3 existed.  
> One of us should take a closer look at this with EPUB 3+ eyes. I'm 
> sure Liza and I have a lot of spare time to do this together J.
>
> ****************************
>
> Tzviya Siegman * Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead * John 
> Wiley & Sons, Inc.
>
> 111 River Street, MS 5-02 * Hoboken, NJ 07030-5774 * 201-748-6884* 
> tsiegman@wiley.com <mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>
>
> *From:*Bill Kasdorf [mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:41 AM
> *To:* George Walkley; Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini
> *Cc:* Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG; 'liza@safaribooksonline.com'
> *Subject:* RE: Liza's review of Pages EPUB export
>
> Thanks too for this---this link is going in my presentation (and its 
> accompanying report) too.
>
> Also note how key the style names are. This is fundamental. It's why 
> when I work on modeling for clients I start way upstream with the 
> vocabulary for the components. You want to retain that all through the 
> workflow as much as possible, starting with editing. You wouldn't 
> believe how much easier this makes everything.
>
> Which gets us right into our structural semantics vs. content 
> semantics discussion. Liza's example of the behavior associated with 
> the Chapter Name style  (wrt chunking, NCX, nav, toc, etc.) vs. the 
> behavior associated with the Chapter Subtitle style couldn't be a 
> clearer example.
>
> Copying Liza because her ears must be burning.
>
> Thanks, Liza!
>
> --Bill K
>
> *From:*George Walkley [mailto:george.walkley@hachette.co.uk]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:41 AM
> *To:* Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini
> *Cc:* Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
>
> @liza took a look at this when the feature was first introduced:
>
> https://blog.safaribooksonline.com/2010/08/26/test-driving-apple-pages-with-epub-export/
>
> *From: *<Belfanti>, Paul <paul.belfanti@pearson.com 
> <mailto:paul.belfanti@pearson.com>>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:49
> *To: *Livio Mondini <l.mondini@webprofession.com 
> <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>>
> *Cc: *Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Digital 
> Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
> *Resent-From: *<public-digipub-ig@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:50
>
> And does it generate a valid EPUB 3? One that would pass epubcheck?
>
> Either way, it's good/interesting news.
>
>
> *Paul*
> -- 
> Paul Belfanti
> Director, Content Architecture
> Core Platforms & Enterprise Architecture
> office: +1 201-236-7746
> mobile: +1 201-783-4884
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Livio Mondini 
> <l.mondini@webprofession.com <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree, many blind people that i know do the same finding much more 
> confortable with HTML. But have you looked at what sort of html Pages 
> generate?
> Livio
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org 
> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
>
> I realized today a strange thing when using Mac' Pages program (that 
> is a Word-like program for Mac, produced by Apple, although infinitely 
> simpler than Word). Pages has various export functionalities. To my 
> surprise, it does not have an HTML export; to my even greater (and 
> pleasant) surprise, it has an EPUB export. Which makes sense if the 
> document contains drawings, for example.
>
> This is pretty much in line with our thoughts on epub.next, and also 
> has a side effect. If one wants simply an HTML from a text only page, 
> then generate the EPUB, unzip it, and there you have the HTML...
>
> :-)
>
> Ivan
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
>
> Click here <https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ==> 
> to report this email as spam.
>
> For company information please visit http://www.hachette.co.uk 
> <http://www.hachette.co.uk/> or write to:
>
> Hachette UK Limited, 338 Euston Road, London, NW1 3BH. Registered in 
> England and Wales under company no. 2020173.
>
> Bill Kasdorf <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>
> 19 Nov 2014 16:41
>
> Thanks too for this---this link is going in my presentation (and its 
> accompanying report) too.
>
> Also note how key the style names are. This is fundamental. It's why 
> when I work on modeling for clients I start way upstream with the 
> vocabulary for the components. You want to retain that all through the 
> workflow as much as possible, starting with editing. You wouldn't 
> believe how much easier this makes everything.
>
> Which gets us right into our structural semantics vs. content 
> semantics discussion. Liza's example of the behavior associated with 
> the Chapter Name style  (wrt chunking, NCX, nav, toc, etc.) vs. the 
> behavior associated with the Chapter Subtitle style couldn't be a 
> clearer example.
>
> Copying Liza because her ears must be burning.
>
> Thanks, Liza!
>
> --Bill K
>
> *From:*George Walkley [mailto:george.walkley@hachette.co.uk]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:41 AM
> *To:* Belfanti, Paul; Livio Mondini
> *Cc:* Ivan Herman; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
>
> @liza took a look at this when the feature was first introduced:
>
> https://blog.safaribooksonline.com/2010/08/26/test-driving-apple-pages-with-epub-export/
>
> *From: *<Belfanti>, Paul <paul.belfanti@pearson.com 
> <mailto:paul.belfanti@pearson.com>>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:49
> *To: *Livio Mondini <l.mondini@webprofession.com 
> <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>>
> *Cc: *Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C Digital 
> Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: An unexpected usage of EPUB:-)
> *Resent-From: *<public-digipub-ig@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
> *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, 19 November 2014 13:50
>
> And does it generate a valid EPUB 3? One that would pass epubcheck?
>
> Either way, it's good/interesting news.
>
>
> *Paul*
> -- 
> Paul Belfanti
> Director, Content Architecture
> Core Platforms & Enterprise Architecture
> office: +1 201-236-7746
> mobile: +1 201-783-4884
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Livio Mondini 
> <l.mondini@webprofession.com <mailto:l.mondini@webprofession.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree, many blind people that i know do the same finding much more 
> confortable with HTML. But have you looked at what sort of html Pages 
> generate?
> Livio
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org 
> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
>
> I realized today a strange thing when using Mac' Pages program (that 
> is a Word-like program for Mac, produced by Apple, although infinitely 
> simpler than Word). Pages has various export functionalities. To my 
> surprise, it does not have an HTML export; to my even greater (and 
> pleasant) surprise, it has an EPUB export. Which makes sense if the 
> document contains drawings, for example.
>
> This is pretty much in line with our thoughts on epub.next, and also 
> has a side effect. If one wants simply an HTML from a text only page, 
> then generate the EPUB, unzip it, and there you have the HTML...
>
> :-)
>
> Ivan
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>
>
>
>
> Click here <https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ==> 
> to report this email as spam.
>
> For company information please visit http://www.hachette.co.uk 
> <http://www.hachette.co.uk/> or write to:
>
> Hachette UK Limited, 338 Euston Road, London, NW1 3BH. Registered in 
> England and Wales under company no. 2020173.
>
Received on Wednesday, 19 November 2014 17:43:54 UTC

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