Draft Minutes 2009-09-30

The draft minutes can be found at: http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-dap-minutes.html

Text content follows for the archives:


       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

           Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

30 Sep 2009


       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0124.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-dap-irc


           Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch, Dominique_HazaŽl-Massieux,
           MarcoMarengo, StephenLewontin, Jere_Kapyaho, LauraArribas,
           hui_miao, Marcin_Hanclik, Paddy_Byers, Ingmar_Kliche,
           David_Rogers, Richard_Tibbett, Claudio_Venezia, Claes_Nilsson

           Thomas_Roessler, Arve_Bersvendsen, Kangchan_Lee

           Robin Berjon, Frederick Hirsch



      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Announcements
          2. [6]Minutes approval
          3. [7]Editorial team report
          4. [8]Action items
          5. [9]Policy Segment
          6. [10]API Segment
          7. [11]Issue review
          8. [12]Other Business
          9. [13]Adjourn
      * [14]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 30 September 2009

    <darobin> crap, I'm still an hour early!

    <darobin> yes, clearly PEBCAK in this case

    <darobin> but last week I was fine and made exactly the same mistake

    <darobin> so let's not presume that it's affecting my abilities in
    any way :)

    <MarcoMarengo> thnx

    <darobin> this is weird, I don't show up!

    <darobin> JereK, you would make a great scribe!

    yes! :-)

    <brianleroux> +Brian_LeRoux

    <darobin> Scribe: Jere

    <darobin> ScribeNick: JereK

    <richt> +Richard_Tibbett

    <brianleroux> will not be able to call in due to family noise
    pollution / hope thats ok =)

    <richt> +richt


    <fhirsch> dial in questionnaire

    <fhirsch> [15]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/phonetpac2009/?

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/phonetpac2009/?

    fhirsch: TPAC coming up, please register and fill in phone-in

    <fhirsch> reminder about tpac


      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2009Sep/0000.html

    <dom> [note that the number of hotel rooms blocked for TPAC is going
    down rapidly]

    <AnssiK> should people who will be attending f2f submit the

    fhirsch: DAP meeting as originally scheduled

Minutes approval


      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0122.html

    fhirsch: minutes sent out yesterday, approval?

    RESOLUTION: minutes of Sep 29 approved

Editorial team report

    fhirsch: one other person wanted to join editorial team?

    darobin: Anselm

    fhirsch: need to join W3C first, all help welcome
    ... need to talk with Dom or tlr first

Action items

    fhirsch: should move actions to pending
    ... when completed, please send mail to list to let ppl know what
    you've done
    ... helps with follow-up

Policy Segment

    fhirsch: some open action items remain, discussion about possible
    additional material needed
    ... some decisions we have to make


      [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0126.html

    fhirsch: looked at high-level material of the inputs
    ... someone from BONDI please give info about 1.01
    ... e-mail summarizes points so far, but doesn't cover everything
    ... one of the big ones is do we need both capabilities for both
    APIs and device

    <drogersuk> I'll give you some more info on the diffs between 1.01
    and 1.0 via email

    <drogersuk> (for BONDI)

    fhirsch: don't know if it's issue for WG, but want discussion on the
    mailing list
    ... reading items from list quickly
    ... bunch of Qs about identification, would like to see a mail
    thread started about it
    ... language independence
    ... use XML for policy, worth discussion
    ... thread about separate policy decision exists
    ... can someone take an action to summarize HTML5 security policy?
    ... need actions to move things forward
    ... thanks David for the diff information, any more detail would be

    <darobin> ACTION: David to provide diffs for the BONDI versions
    [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Provide diffs for the BONDI versions
    [on David Rogers - due 2009-10-07].

    <paddy> I can start a discussion on features/device capabilities

    fhirsch: now would be a good time to discuss

    <drogersuk> can't hear a thing

    <drogersuk> ok

    <darobin> ACTION: Paddy to open an issue and start a discussion on
    features/device capabilities [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Open an issue and start a discussion
    on features/device capabilities [on Paddy Byers - due 2009-10-07].

    fhirsch: link to TAG discussion regarding policy sent by Robin
    ... has been a big issue in Geolocation, concerns retaining
    ... anybody in the position to take actions related to policy?

    darobin: Paddy took an action about features/device capabilities

    <fhirsch> need help with identifying APIs, Capabilities, FEaturews
    by URI

    fhirsch: maybe also related WebIDL stuff

    darobin: no WebIDL stuff in this, not in terms of URIs

    fhirsch: could use help with this

    darobin: should probably open this as an issue, what levels of
    granularity for identification

    fhirsch: granularity of access control
    ... need to talk this through on the list, more than one person can
    do this
    ... get stuff done and see what's wrong with it
    ... can go quicker if we have something to disagree

    StephenLewontin: volunteer to help with the HTML5 security

    <dom> ACTION: Stephen to look into HTML5 security model [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Look into HTML5 security model [on
    stephen lewontin - due 2009-10-07].

    SteveLewontin: need any requirements for capability semantics?
    ... how are those defined, just recommendations?

    fhirsch: clearly have to say what we mean

    <fhirsch> issue: policy, need to define semantics of capabilities or

    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-24 - Policy, need to define semantics of
    capabilities or not ; please complete additional details at
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/24/edit .

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/24/edit

    SteveLewontin: will put this in writing, need to make a decision
    about the semantics of capabilities

    <dom> ACTION-24 due in two weeks

    <trackbot> ACTION-24 Look into HTML5 security model due date now in
    two weeks

    SteveLewontin: will make an effort to do the action in two weeks

    marcin: currently discussions in BONDI around features and
    capabilities for 1.1
    ... white paper to highlight topics in progress
    ... needs some additions due to recent input, could use it as input
    for this in DAP
    ... doable by next week's call

    <dom> ACTION: marcin to provide BONDI white paper on features and
    capabilities [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Provide BONDI white paper on features
    and capabilities [on Marcin Hanclik - due 2009-10-07].

    fhirsch: thanks Marcin
    ... back to the list
    ... another big one is trusted identity and trust
    ... don't want PKI, but need to see how far to go in this direction
    ... don't think there's any disagremeent in separating policy, the
    BONDI ones are straightforward
    ... would be helpful to get the material from people
    ... would be good to have a proposal when you create the issue, will
    send mail about this
    ... will be more productive that way
    ... any other comments about policy?


API Segment

    <dom> ISSUE-12?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Gathering requirements for Gallery API --

    <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/12

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/12

    darobin: how do we orthogonalize API design so that policy is still
    ... example is user grants access to gallery, depends on while
    ... simplest thing is to ignore the issue and hope policy system
    handles, but could be too simplistic


      [25] http://www.w3.org/mid/53714B75-E7DC-4B1F-BB53-B3C79ECD272D@robineko.com

    darobin: suggested to raise an issue about this, link above


      [26] http://www.w3.org/mid/355A518BC0575547B2A3D6773AAF8EEF463F2B@ftrdmel1

    darobin: Richard raised another issue, link above

    <darobin> ISSUE: Orthogonality of API and Policy systems when an API
    has dependencies on other APIs

    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-25 - Orthogonality of API and Policy
    systems when an API has dependencies on other APIs ; please complete
    additional details at
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/25/edit .

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/25/edit

    richt: let's call it cross-module dependencies and impact on policy

    darobin: means what you just said

    richt: and the grouping of features and capabilities if that's

    darobin: now updated with the correct name

    <fhirsch> issue-25 grant access to gallery yet gallery depends on
    file, is this implicit

    darobin: potentially complicated enough to discuss by mail not by
    ... would like to note that this has also been discussed in BONDI,
    input from those people welcome

    marcin: issue 25 is related to discussion about policy, could
    combine them

    <fhirsch> yes it is policy related

    darobin: definitely, depending on decision about policy power, API
    could be designed to be free of policy issues, but also the other
    way around

    <fhirsch> action-25?

    <trackbot> ACTION-25 -- Marcin Hanclik to provide BONDI white paper
    on features and capabilities -- due 2009-10-07 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/25

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/25

    marcin: issue 25 is related to action 25

    darobin: lucky strike
    ... thanks Marcin
    ... question of umbrella requirements document for APIs, any

    <dtran> Dzung Tran is on the phone (muted)

    <fhirsch> yes to Robin's question, no objection


    darobin: will check document to IRC so that Bryan has something to
    work with, then move forward
    ... many requirements gathering issues, 7, 14, etc., discussions
    ... anyone have any issue they'd like to bring up regarding API

    <dom> (umbrella req document relates to ISSUE-22, which I assume can
    now be closed)


    richt: discussion about System Information led to asynchronicity
    ... could be something to discuss in the umbrella document

    darobin: issue-14?
    ... that should move to 'applies to all APIs' section, agreed
    ... anything else on API reqs?


    darobin: will coordinate with Bryan about the reqs posted so far,
    then start fleshing out the real APIs
    ... anything further on APIs?


Issue review

    fhirsch: no need to go one by one

    <fhirsch> [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open

    fhirsch: but not that many, just ask status

    darobin: three quarters are those just talked about in the API
    section, doesn't leave much

    fhirsch; talk about error handling, but might make sense to wait

    darobin: error handling better discussed in e-mail
    ... there was the beginning of a thread, ISSUE-2


      [30] http://www.w3.org/mid/20090825130743.01C355F76D@stu.w3.org

    fhirsch: relationship of error handling to security and leakage of
    ... any talk in BONDI?

    darobin: hasn't been discussed as ISSUE-2, not sure about BONDI

    fhirsch: maybe less important now than other things
    ... end the call early if we run out of topics, continue actively on
    the list
    ... need to get enough material on the list to have a meaningful

    darobin: agreed

    fhirsch: any concerns or issues to raise?


    fhirsch: work on the issue and post on the list

    darobin: great idea

    <richt> Congraulations to Arve :-)

    darobin: adjourned

Other Business



    <brianleroux> goodbye

    <marcin> bye

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: David to provide diffs for the BONDI versions
    [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: marcin to provide BONDI white paper on features and
    capabilities [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Paddy to open an issue and start a discussion on
    features/device capabilities [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Stephen to look into HTML5 security model [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [35]scribe.perl version 1.135
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     $Date: 2009/09/30 14:39:09 $

      [35] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Succeeded: s/JereK:/JereK,/
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Found Scribe: Jere
Found ScribeNick: JereK
Default Present: Frederick_Hirsch
Present: Robin_Berjon Frederick_Hirsch Dominique_HazaŽl-Massieux MarcoM
arengo StephenLewontin Jere_Kapyaho LauraArribas hui_miao Marcin_Hancli
k Paddy_Byers Ingmar_Kliche David_Rogers Richard_Tibbett Claudio_Venezi
a Claes_Nilsson

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: TLR, Kangchan_Lee)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the li
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Thomas_Roessler, Arve_Bersvendsen, Kangchan_

Regrets: Thomas_Roessler Arve_Bersvendsen Kangchan_Lee
Agenda: [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009
Found Date: 30 Sep 2009
Guessing minutes URL: [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-dap-minutes.html
People with action items: david marcin paddy stephen

      [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Sep/0124.html
      [39] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-dap-minutes.html

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      [40] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/

Received on Wednesday, 30 September 2009 14:41:29 UTC