Draft minutes 2009-10-21

Attached are draft minutes from 2009-10-21 teleconference, in html,  
for approval

# Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

## 21 Oct 2009

[Agenda][3]

See also: [IRC log][4]

## Attendees

Present

     Anssi_Kostiainen, Bryan_Bryan, Claes_Nilsson, Dominique_Hazael- 
Massieux,
Dzung_Tran, Frederick_Hirsch, Ilkka_Oksanen, Jere_Kapyaho, Kangchan,
Laura_Arribas, Marcin_Hanclik, Marco_Marengo, NIklas_Widell,  
Paddy_Byers,
Richard_Tibbett, Stephen_Lewontin, Thomas_Roessler, Wonsuk_Lee

Regrets

     Robin_Berjon, Daniel_Coloma, David_Rogers

Chair

     Frederick Hirsch

Scribe

     marengo

## Contents

   * [Topics][5]

     1. [admin stuff][6]

     2. [Announcements, meeting planning, logistics][7]

     3. [minutes approval][8]

     4. [Policy Segment][9]

     5. [API segment][10]

     6. [bondi 1.01][11]

     7. [issue-16 web notifications][12]

     8. [Issue review][13]

   * [Summary of Action Items][14]

* * *

<trackbot> Date: 21 October 2009

<fhirsch> Agenda: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0195.html][15]

<fhirsch> Chair: Robin Berjon and Frederick Hirsch

<dom> tlr, we have one person having asked for teleconf access to the  
F2F, but
at this time we don't have a polycom reserved for the F2F according to
[http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Schedule.html][16]

<dom> I don't know if it is still time to ask for that additional  
equipment —
susan's message isn't explicit about that
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009OctDec/0157.html][17]

<tlr> I wonder whether we could solve this by using skype with a nice
microphone.

<fhirsch> I thought we did have one reserved.

<tlr> fh, that was for xmlsec

<MoZ> fhirsch: MoZ is Mohamed Zergaoui from Innovimax

<tlr> Scribe: marengo

<fhirsch> ScribeNick: marengo

thx

### admin stuff

### Announcements, meeting planning, logistics

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0194.html][18]

<dom> [TPAC registration closes on Oct 23][19]

<tlr> yes, it's 1h earlier for Europe.

<tlr> [http://esw.w3.org/topic/TPAC_Security_BOF][20]

<tlr> informal session

### minutes approval

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0166.html][21]

resolution: minutes for 2009-10-14 are approved

### Policy Segment

<fhirsch> issue-32?

<trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- Features, Device Capabilities, their  
identification,
and their role in policy. -- RAISED

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/32][22]

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/][23]

Paddy: discussion kicked off on how features are identified

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0160.html][24]

<marengo_> my connection dropped

<marengo_> sorry

<fhirsch> paddy: feature is ability to use capability for a specific api

<tlr> issue-28?

<trackbot> ISSUE-28 -- [Policy] Requirement for NO security prompting --
RAISED

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/28][25]

paddy: brief discussion last week

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0185.html][26]

<dom> [Paddy's summary on ISSUE-28][26]

paddy: tried to pull out the things which everybody agree

<dom> (linked to ACTION-28 - which I think can now be closed)

paddy: seems clear that the requirement isn't going away

... modal prompts are bad and avoidable with good api design

... user should know something is happening

... many questions have been raised on the ML

... One was about asking just once

... and giving fine grained decision support later

fhirsch: suggests to create issues related to such discussion

<fhirsch> **ACTION:** paddy to enter issues based on issue-28  
[recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action01][27]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Enter issues based on issue-28 [on  
Paddy Byers
- due 2009-10-28].

fhirsch: objections to include in the requirements doc?

<Bryan> +1

resolution: paddy to start creating a draft Policy Requirements document
related to issue-28

<fhirsch> issue: persisting state of user decisions

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-33 - Persisting state of user decisions ;  
please
complete additional details at
[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/33/edit][28] .

<fhirsch> Issue-33: related to blanket permission question

<trackbot> ISSUE-33 Persisting state of user decisions notes added

<scribe> **ACTION:** paddy to create a draft Policy Requirements  
document
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action02] 
[29]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Create a draft Policy Requirements  
document [on
Paddy Byers - due 2009-10-28].

<Bryan> have to drop chat, will be on the phone

Resolution: start requirements document using material from Paddy  
issue-28,
issue-33

<fhirsch> issue-11?

<trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- Gathering requirements for FileSystem API -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/11][30]

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0193.html][31]

marcin: we are talking about protecting apis

<fhirsch> protecting apis versus protecting data is possibly important
consideration

<fhirsch> issue: Protecting data versus protecting apis

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-34 - Protecting data versus protecting apis ;  
please
complete additional details at
[http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/34/edit][32] .

<fhirsch> issue-34: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0193.html][31]

<trackbot> ISSUE-34 Protecting data versus protecting apis notes added

marcin: in dap we try to create apis for mananing contacts, events, ...

... protecting the apis is not security

<fhirsch> isn't this a discussion of granularity of access control?

marcin: as a refinement of protecting apis we can go further and  
specify which
parameters are valid or not

<fhirsch> Bryan: BONDI can define security sensitive parameters, e.g.  
limit
access to file location

marcin: will clarify this in BONDI

fhirsch: will it work with things like Contacts

<fhirsch> filtering with tag based rules, e.g only sms to contact

<fhirsch> lewontin: Nokia API has conditional permissions

<fhirsch> ... operation at time of day for example

<fhirsch> **ACTION:** lewontin to share information on conditional  
permissions
on list [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-
minutes.html#action03][33]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Share information on conditional  
permissions on
list [on stephen lewontin - due 2009-10-28].

<fhirsch> try to do this before TPAC please

?action-16

<fhirsch> action-16?

<trackbot> ACTION-16 -- Bryan Sullivan to help review/compare device
capabilities and features -- due 2009-09-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/16][34]

<fhirsch> in progress, before f2f

<fhirsch> action-22?

<trackbot> ACTION-22 -- David Rogers to provide diffs for the BONDI  
versions
-- due 2009-10-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/22][35]

<dom> close ACTION-22

<trackbot> ACTION-22 Provide diffs for the BONDI versions closed

<fhirsch> action-24?

<trackbot> ACTION-24 -- stephen lewontin to look into HTML5 security  
model --
due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/24][36]

<fhirsch> in progress

<dom> paddy already got an action

<dom> ACTION-30?

<trackbot> ACTION-30 -- Paddy Byers to create a draft Policy  
Requirements
document -- due 2009-10-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/30][37]

<paddy> sorry was that a question to me?

<dom> ACTION-30?

<trackbot> ACTION-30 -- Frederick Hirsch to create a draft Policy  
Requirements
document -- due 2009-10-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/30][37]

<paddy> happy to share an action

fhirsch: f2f agenda ..... we'll work out which slots we'll use for  
policy
discussion

... any suggestions for the agenda?

... regrets should be sent to the list, not just to the chairs

### API segment

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0186.html][38]

<fhirsch> System Info & Events API

<dom> [First stab at System Info & Events API][38]

<fhirsch> proposal here - [http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-
info/Overview.html][39]

<dom> [A proposal for the Device API and Policy Working Group System
Information and Events API.][39]

<dom> (that seems to be an awful long document - I would rather see  
smaller
modules)

<AnssiK> +1 for making the spec modular and weeding out parts which  
should go
to v1

dom: suggests to keep only the things we are going to implement

<fhirsch> dom suggests may want to limit scope of the system info to  
cpu etc
but not compass and sensors

<fhirsch> dom notes compass is important API but not as a system API

<dom> **ACTION:** Dom to look into existing work around compass API at
geolocation / webapps [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-
minutes.html#action04][40]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Look into existing work around compass  
API at
geolocation / webapps [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2009-10-28].

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to talk about compass and geoloc

AnssiK: had a quick look at the spec and propose to try to find out  
what is
feasible for v1

<fhirsch> need to consider implications of amount and scope of work,  
including
interop

<fhirsch> all - Please review document and comment on list, which  
should be in
system API, what should be in v2, and what should be a separate API

<fhirsch> **ACTION:** dzung to revise system api based on list feedback
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action05] 
[41]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Revise system api based on list  
feedback [on
Dzung Tran - due 2009-10-28].

### bondi 1.01

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0190.html][42]

<paddy> I don't think he's on the call

fhirsch: changes is 1.01 are corrections to callback names, error  
handling,
...

<fhirsch> [http://bondi.omtp.org/1.01/apis/errata.html][43]

fhirsch: from a high level point of view it does not add much to  
discussion

issue-16?

<trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Gathering requirements for User Interaction API  
-- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/16][44]

### issue-16 web notifications

fhirsch: web apps and ui dap

<fhirsch> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0177.html][45]

<dom> [Web NOtifications proposal in WebApps][46]

AnssiK: had a look at prior art, received feedback on ml

... link to WebApps WG, they are implementing web notification system in
webkit

... who's taking web notifications

<dom> [this suggests we should take it up - and thus follow-up on the  
public-
webapps message]

<fhirsch> ansii notes examples are growl etc

AnssiK: (there's a discussion on the ML in the recent mails)

... multi-tasking use cases are considered

... mechanism to inform the user of an update

... without forcing the user to open the application

... we could take this

<dom> (there is also discussions in WebApps regarding an API discussing
idleness/visibility of the browser context which is likely somewhat  
relevant
to us as well: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
webapps/2009OctDec/0223.html][47] )

dom: let's wait until next week for a decision

<fhirsch> suggest we make decision next week, with Robin on call

### Issue review

<fhirsch> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open][48]

<fhirsch> earlier discussed API design patterns, this action should  
help with
moving forward

<dom> ACTION-21?

<trackbot> ACTION-21 -- Bryan Sullivan to send comments about Arve's
requirements for ISSUE-6 -- due 2009-09-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/21][49]

everyone should prepare input for the requirements

<fhirsch> bryan suggests all prepare inputs for various API  
requirements for
TPAC

<dom> (please introduce the topic on the mailing list beforehand, bryan)

<fhirsch> open actions [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open] 
[50]

fhirsch: review the open action points before tpac

<dom> (MWABP stands for Mobile Web Application Best Practices)

<fhirsch> adjourn

## Summary of Action Items

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** Dom to look into existing work around compass  
API at
geolocation / webapps [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-
minutes.html#action04][40]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** dzung to revise system api based on list feedback
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action05] 
[41]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** lewontin to share information on conditional  
permissions
on list [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-
minutes.html#action03][33]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** paddy to create a draft Policy Requirements  
document
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action02] 
[29]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** paddy to enter issues based on issue-28  
[recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action01][27]]


[End of minutes]

* * *

Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][51] version 1.135 ([CVS
log][52])

$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $

    [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home

    [2]: http://www.w3.org/

    [3]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0184.html

    [4]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-irc

    [5]: #agenda

    [6]: #item01

    [7]: #item02

    [8]: #item03

    [9]: #item04

    [10]: #item05

    [11]: #item06

    [12]: #item07

    [13]: #item08

    [14]: #ActionSummary

    [15]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0195.html

    [16]: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Schedule.html

    [17]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009OctDec/ 
0157.html

    [18]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0194.html

    [19]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-
apis/2009Oct/0006.html

    [20]: http://esw.w3.org/topic/TPAC_Security_BOF

    [21]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0166.html

    [22]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/32

    [23]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/ 
2009Oct/

    [24]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0160.html

    [25]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/28

    [26]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0185.html

    [27]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action01

    [28]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/33/edit

    [29]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action02

    [30]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/11

    [31]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0193.html

    [32]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/34/edit

    [33]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action03

    [34]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/16

    [35]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/22

    [36]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/24

    [37]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/30

    [38]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0186.html

    [39]: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/Overview.html

    [40]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action04

    [41]: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-dap-minutes.html#action05

    [42]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0190.html

    [43]: http://bondi.omtp.org/1.01/apis/errata.html

    [44]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/16

    [45]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2009Oct/0177.html

    [46]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
webapps/2009OctDec/0225.html

    [47]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
webapps/2009OctDec/0223.html

    [48]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open

    [49]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/21

    [50]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open

    [51]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

    [52]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


regards, Frederick

Frederick Hirsch, Nokia
Co-Chair, W3C DAP Working Group