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RE: Trying to summarise (was Re: DAP and security)

From: Marcin Hanclik <Marcin.Hanclik@access-company.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:41:21 +0100
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Adam Barth <w3c@adambarth.com>
CC: Robin Berjon <robin@berjon.com>, "public-device-apis@w3.org" <public-device-apis@w3.org>, public-webapps WG <public-webapps@w3.org>
Message-ID: <FAA1D89C5BAF1142A74AF116630A9F2C289432A266@OBEEX01.obe.access-company.com>
Hi Maciej,

Thanks for your review!

The page <http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/> does not yet include the BONDI 1.1 Candidate Release at [1].
The device capabilities [2] could be regarded as a compact form of security considerations within BONDI APIs.
It should be noted that the device capabilities - although related to BONDI APIs - could be regarded as generic enough to incorporate any APIs.

Based on the BONDI policy format specification, I would propose to start with the following default policy for "the Web":

<policy-set combine="deny-overrides">
  <policy description="Default Policy for BONDI API & device capabilities within Win2K environment">
        <subject-match attr="class" match="website" func="equal"/>
        <subject-match attr="uri.scheme" match="http" func="equal"/>
        <subject-match attr="class" match="website" func="equal"/>
        <subject-match attr="uri.scheme" match="https" func="equal"/>
    <rule effect="deny">
      <condition combine="or">
        <condition combine="and">
          <condition combine="or">
            <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="io.file.read"/>
            <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="io.file.write"/>
          <condition combine="or">
            <resource-match attr="param:name">C:\WINNT<resource-match />
            <resource-match attr="param:name">C:\Documents and Settings<resource-match />
        <condition combine="or">
            <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="devicestatus.set"/>
            <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="commlog.clear"/>
    <rule effect="prompt-session">
      <condition combine="or">
         <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="location.position"/>
         <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="devicestatus.get"/>
         <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="devicestatus.list"/>
        <condition combine="and">
          <condition combine="or">
            <resource-match attr="param:inContacts">undefined<resource-match />
          <condition combine="or">
                <resource-match attr='device-cap' match='messaging.email.send'>
                <resource-match attr='device-cap' match='messaging.mms.send'>
                <resource-match attr='device-cap' match='messaging.sms.send'>
                <resource-match attr='device-cap' match='messaging.binary.send'>
    <rule effect="prompt-oneshot">
      <condition combine="or">
         <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="applauncher.launch"/>
         <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="io.file.write"/>
    <rule effect="permit">
      <condition combine="or">
        <resource-match attr='device-cap' match='appconfig.get'>
    <rule effect="prompt-blanket">
      <condition combine="or">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="appconfig.set">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="applauncher.get">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="camera.access">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="camera.capture">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="camera.record">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="commlog.sms.get">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="commlog.mms.get">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="commlog.email.get">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="commlog.call.get">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="io.file.read"/>
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="location.position">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.email.attach">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.mms.attach">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.email.getAccounts">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.email.send">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.mms.send">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.sms.send">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.binary.send">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.mms.subscribe">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.sms.subscribe">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="messaging.binary.subscribe">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.contact.read">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.contact.write">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.task.read">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.task.read">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.event.write">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="pim.event.read">
        <resource-match attr="device-cap" match="ui">


[1] http://bondi.omtp.org/1.1/CR/
[2] http://bondi.omtp.org/1.1/CR/apis/devcaps.html
From: public-device-apis-request@w3.org [public-device-apis-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Maciej Stachowiak [mjs@apple.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:35 PM
To: Adam Barth
Cc: Robin Berjon; public-device-apis@w3.org; public-webapps WG
Subject: Re: Trying to summarise (was Re: DAP and security)

On Nov 19, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Adam Barth wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robin Berjon <robin@berjon.com>
> wrote:
>> Finally, we can all talk about policy and trust in browsers until
>> we're bluer in the face than a hypothermic smurf the fact of the
>> matter is that I don't believe that this is a case where discussion
>> can produce consensus. There are use cases for policy, and
>> solutions for those will be developed at the very least for the
>> widgets landscape. If it so happens that they yield interesting
>> innovative stuff that could be useful in browsers, then it'll be
>> easy to point to it as proof and demo. Far easier than to argue
>> about it, and it'll happen faster if we create the technology
>> rather than talk about it :)
> I don't believe you can design secure APIs by first implementing the
> APIs and then worrying about security later.  That's the road that
> leads to systems like User Account Control (UAC).  Instead, you need
> to understand the security requirements up-front and design your APIs
> to match.
> If you ignore input from browser vendors who've been working with
> these issues for years, it's unlikely you'd design something they'll
> find palatable.

This is pretty much how I feel about the security design aspects of
many of the proposed DAP specifications. If you look at the specs
listed in the Input section here: <http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/>, they
mostly have missing or unhelpful Security Considerations sections. The
BONDI security document listed there doesn't seem to provide anything
for security other than a policy mechanism, with no hint of what might
be a safe default policy for the Web.

Apple will consider joining the DAP Working Group, but the security
direction so far is on reason we are hesitant.



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Received on Thursday, 19 November 2009 21:42:11 UTC

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