Re: Notes & Slides from Meeting at W3C TPAC

Hello guys and gals,

​When I used the word "displays", I was referring to flat-3D vs. Virtual
> Reality vs. Augmented/Mixed Reality; not physical devices​
>
>
There's also holographic displays coming to mass market. The HoloPlayer One
<https://lookingglassfactory.com/product/holoplayer-one> is out now for
$750 (next up imagine a family-size version in your living room).

Here is the demo I wasn't able to present at TPAC (HDMI adapter didn't
work):

https://codepen.io/trusktr/pen/bYKXLd

Work on this is at trusktr/infamous in the threejs branch
<https://github.com/trusktr/infamous/tree/threejs>.

Note: the scene is described in HTML, and only minimal JS is needed to
begin animating things.

The following are just my humble opinions on the whole topic. :)

It'll be nice (as you may have already imagined) to make the
next-generation of 3D markup usable with any sort of display with minimal
configuration, and with any sort of content (not just 3D content, but also
2D content that uses familiar coordinate systems like what web authors are
already accustomed to when they use elements like DIV and top/left
positioning, etc). It will be awesome for people to be able to create
regular 2D UI-centric applications that can leverage the power of 3D (f.e.
a button with real shadows and light reflections rather than static
rasterized CSS drop shadows).

Basically what I would like to emphasize is: let's not limit this new
technology to open 3D worlds or to WebVR displays. Let's make this new
technology useful for a wide variety of use cases so that everyone can
benefit (2D UI authors, game authors, WebVR authors, AR authors, Holography
authors, etc).

An example of what not to do (in my humble opinion) is to follow footsteps
like A-Frame's, where A-Frame is largely exclusive to 3D worlds with a
focus on WebVR out of the box. This immediately entirely removes the
library from being adopted by people who are making 2D UI-centric
applications.

What I think we should do is something like follows.

Suppose the web had a builtin <scene-3d> element (it may not be named
scene-3d in it's final form, but imagine that name for now). It'd be great
to be able to do something like all of the following cases:

```html
<scene-3d mode="webvr">...</scene-3d>
​
<scene-3d mode="
​flat​
">...</scene-3d>
​
<scene-3d mode="
​holo​
">...</scene-3d>
​
​
<scene-3d mode="
​auto
">...</scene-3d>
​
​ <!-- the default behavior, which adapts to context -->
```

and importantly, it'd be very necessary for there to be a way to enable a
mode whereby coordinates of the 3D space match those of DOM's traditional
top-left space:
​
```html
<scene-3d mode="
​flat​
">
  <dom-camera perspective="300">
    <node position="20 20 0"><div>This is DOM content rendered alongside a
3D mesh.</div></node>
    <mesh has="box-geometry physical-material" size="10 10 10"></mesh>
  </dom-camera>
</scene-3d>
​
```

In that above example, the important things to note are that the `camera`
perspective is set to `300`, which is equivalent to `perspective:300px` in
CSS terms, the size of the mesh is 10px by 10px by 10px in CSS pixels, and
the DOM content is positioned 20px from the top (Y axis) and 20px from the
left (X axis). Content that are children of this camera, and when they have
position Z=0, are located on a plane within the camera where 1 unit of
translation is equivalent to one CSS pixel, exactly as with the implied
camera when using CSS3D perspective, and the origin of the coordinate space
starts at the top-left of the camera view just like with DOM coordinates.
Just as with CSS3D, this camera has an infinitely-far-away far plane (or
more precisely, auto-adjusted depth based on the elements in the scene so
that all elements are always encompassed within the camera's Z depth, a
make-things-easy feature of CSS3D).

The huge benefit of this sort of camera would be that we can *easily* position
Meshes and other 3D content next to DOM content in the exact same way that
we're already familiar with in regular HTML/CSS development. This is
powerful, because it means regular HTML-app authors will be able to
*easily* use
the power of 3D to decorate existing web applications with 3D content in an
easy and understandable way that they already know, without having to think
so hard about it.

For reference, achieving this with Three.js is too complex to achieve for
people learning to make UI-centric applications with basic top-left
coordinates in HTML. Let's help those people out, and make 3D just as easy
for them. I'm talking about people who may not even know JavaScript yet,
but may be willing to read up just a little on how to put a <camera>
element in their applications in *a way that is sematically easier to
understand than CSS3D*.

Things like `onclick` attributes would work just the same way as with
traditional DOM.

I'm implementing this sort of camera over at trusktr/infamous
<https://github.com/trusktr/infamous/tree/threejs>
 (same link as above, give me a few weeks to finish the first version of
the camera). I'll post back once I finish the camera with a "mixed mode"
HTML example of DOM and WebGL rendered in the same DOM-style coordinate
space.

Warmly,
Joe

*/#!/*JoePea

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 12:43 AM, Bassbouss, Louay <
louay.bassbouss@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

> Thanks Leonard for the clarification.
>
>
> Louay
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Leonard Daly <web3d@realism.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:17:20 AM
> *To:* public-decwebvr@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Notes & Slides from Meeting at W3C TPAC
>
> Hi Louay,
>
> I suspect I was not sufficiently clear in my statement. When I used the
> word "displays", I was referring to flat-3D vs. Virtual Reality vs.
> Augmented/Mixed Reality; not physical devices. After reviewing the work
> that you and others are doing at Fraunhofer, I think it may be more closely
> aligned with with WebVR is doing. They have a feature called "magic window"
> that allows the display of a large image within a window on the device. I
> think it might be best to contact them for coordinating your expertise.
>
> Of course we welcome means for declaratively specifying how this is to
> happen. That would be completely appropriate and right to our core goal.
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>
> Hello Leonard,
>
>
> Thanks for the update I was interested in participating at the meeting but
> there was a conflict with other meetings at TPAC this year. Can you explain
> more about "One important item I took away from the meeting was the
> interest in displays that are not just "Virtual Reality", but include the
> other modes of "Reality"? are TVs under this category of displays? if yes
> we at Fraunhofer FOKUS  have interest to contribute based on our expertise
> in this domain [1].
>
>
> [1]: https://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/go/360
>
>
> regards
>
> Louay Bassbouss
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Leonard Daly <web3d@realism.com> <web3d@realism.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:45:20 PM
> *To:* public-decwebvr@w3.org
> *Subject:* Notes & Slides from Meeting at W3C TPAC
>
>
> During last week's W3C TPAC meeting in Burlingame, the Declarative WebVR
> met. The meeting was attended by 19 people (listed below). This was the
> first face-to-face meeting of the group and a necessary step to continue
> our work. This email contains (either as attachments or links) the
> presentations from the meeting. Please feel free to contact me if you have
> any questions on anything related to WebVR or the W3C.
>
> One important item I took away from the meeting was the interest in
> displays that are not just "Virtual Reality", but include the other modes
> of "Reality". I am not going to propose expanding our goal to "Mixed
> Reality", but we need to make sure that whatever comes from this does not
> prohibit the other modes.
>
> Here are the links or attached slides from the meeting last week.
>
> List of attendees:
>
> Don Brutzman; Web3D Consortium
> Newton Calegari; NIC.br
> Jinho Choi; Remote Master
> Leonard Daly; Daly Realism, Co-Chair
> Qitao Gan; Telenor
> Sam Goto; Google
> Barbara Hochgesang; Intel
> Shim Hyukhoon; AKN Inc.
> Younji Jang; Letsee
> Brandon Jones; Google
> Stephen Konig; Google
> Alexis Menard; Intel
> Rachel Nabors; Microsoft
> Makoto Odamaki; Ricoh
> Joe Pea; Self
> Shoichiro Sekiguchi; NHK
> Nell Waliczek; Microsoft
> Byounghyun Yoo; KIST
>
>
> Declarative VR Community Group (main presentation):
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iansXbvqWCN8Tw6AuKXCMQBln0LuN
> FDGUt0q0sJYUWE/edit?usp=sharing
>
> The Case for Declarative VR (Shannon Norrell): [attached]
>
> WebVR (Nell Waliczek and Brandon Jones): [attached]
>
> X3D (Don Brutzman): https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-decwebvr/
> 2017Nov/0001.html [previously sent to public mailing list]
>
> XSeen (Leonard Daly): http://realism.com/xseen-tpac2017
>
>
> Thank you to everyone who contributed either as a presenter, participant,
> or providing support.
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems Architect & Cloud Consultant
> Co-Chair, Declarative WebVR Community Group (https://www.w3.org/community/
> webvr/)
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems Architect & Cloud Consultant
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>

Received on Monday, 27 November 2017 23:04:14 UTC