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Re: ISSUE-137: Re: rdf language tag contraints

From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 09:06:33 -0700
To: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <56EC2789.9090602@kcoyle.net>
I can think of these use cases:

1. literal must have a language tag - any language tag
2. literal must have a specific language tag
3. literal must have one of a list of language tags

The more difficult one is:

4. there must be n properties, each with one of a list of language tags, 
no repeats, e.g. you must have 3 SKOS preflables, one each @en @sp @fr

There may be others, that's what's off the top of my head.
kc

On 3/18/16 1:09 AM, Bart van Leeuwen wrote:
> Hi Holger,
>
> The requirement itself has already been discussed in the UCR document.
>
> The background for my interest is using shapes for UI generation.
> If you generate a UI from RDF data it makes sense to have the litterals
> displayed in the preferred user language, or to be able to indicate this
> is not available in the data.
> When you have a shape describing the UI constraints you can instantly
> find out if the data to be displayed is actually available in the
> language you need.
>
> So if I would use e.g. sh:language or sh:languageIn on a property it
> would be valid if at least one of the property values matches the language.
>
> As much as I appreciate the power of the shacl extensions as described
> in 6.1 I think that the language tag is such fundamental part of the RDF
> spec that it should be in core.
> We also have a SHACL core constraint for datatypes which are also part
> of the RDF spec
>
> Met Vriendelijke Groet / With Kind Regards
> Bart van Leeuwen
>
> ##############################################################
> # twitter: @semanticfire
> # netage.nl
> # http://netage.nl <http://netage.nl/>
> # Esdoornstraat 3
> # 3461ER Linschoten
> # tel. +31(0)6-53182997
> ##############################################################
>
>
>
> From: Holger Knublauch <holger@topquadrant.com>
> To: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org
> Date: 18-03-2016 03:16
> Subject: ISSUE-137: Re: rdf language tag contraints
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Hi Bart,
>
> could you clarify your requirement:
>
> 1) Do you want to express that at least one of the values of a given
> property has a certain language tag?
>
> 2) Do you want to express that all values of a given property have a
> certain language tag?
>
> On the question of usability, I assume you know that the example in 6.1
> is not how users would typically encounter this. SHACL has the extension
> mechanism that allows new high-level terms to be defined, even if they
> missed the boat of the current SHACL Core. It would then look like
>
> ex:MyShape
>      a sh:Shape ;
>      sh:property [
>          sh:predicate rdfs:label ;
>          lang:hasValueWithLang "en" ;
>      ] .
>
> assuming that someone has published a corresponding constraint component
> as a library with the namespace prefix "lang:" (which would be quite
> trivial to do and would exploit the power of the web instead of
> delegating everything to a committee).
>
> Thanks,
> Holger
>
>
> On 15/03/2016 7:51, Bart van Leeuwen wrote:
> Karen,
>
> I created ISSUE-137, mentioning ISSUE-35
> I guess this is the proper way to do it.
>
> Met Vriendelijke Groet / With Kind Regards
> Bart van Leeuwen
>
> ##############################################################
> # twitter: @semanticfire
> # netage.nl
> # _http://netage.nl_ <http://netage.nl/>
> # Esdoornstraat 3
> # 3461ER Linschoten
> # tel. +31(0)6-53182997
> ##############################################################
>
>
>
> From: Karen Coyle _<kcoyle@kcoyle.net>_ <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
> To: Bart van Leeuwen _<bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>_
> <mailto:bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>
> Cc: _public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org_
> <mailto:public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org>, Arnaud Le Hors
> _<lehors@us.ibm.com>_ <mailto:lehors@us.ibm.com>
> Date: 14-03-2016 22:42
> Subject: Re: rdf language tag contraints
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ISSUE-35 is closed. I think this needs to be a new issue, can refer to
> ISSUE-35 outcome, and the message is: add this functionality to the
> SHACL specification. (Arnaud, if this isn't the right procedure, pls
> advise.)
>
> kc
>
> On 3/14/16 1:45 PM, Bart van Leeuwen wrote:
>  > I'll pick it up,
>  >
>  > it is still related to ISSUE-35 right ?
>  >
>  > Met Vriendelijke Groet / With Kind Regards
>  > Bart van Leeuwen
>  >
>  > ##############################################################
>  > # twitter: @semanticfire
>  > # netage.nl
>  > # _http://netage.nl_ <http://netage.nl/><_http://netage.nl/_>
>  > # Esdoornstraat 3
>  > # 3461ER Linschoten
>  > # tel. +31(0)6-53182997
>  > ##############################################################
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > From: Karen Coyle _<kcoyle@kcoyle.net>_ <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
>  > To: Bart van Leeuwen _<bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>_
> <mailto:bart_van_leeuwen@netage.nl>
>  > Cc: _public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org_ <mailto:public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org>
>  > Date: 14-03-2016 21:43
>  > Subject: Re: rdf language tag contraints
>  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I believe we need an issue to make sure this gets discussed. I can
>  > create that if you wish, or you can do it.
>  >
>  > kc
>  >
>  > On 3/14/16 9:17 AM, Bart van Leeuwen wrote:
>  >  > Hi Karen,
>  >  >
>  >  > Thanks for the follow up, does this mean that a constrained in SHACL
>  >  > should also be added ?
>  >  >
>  >  > Met Vriendelijke Groet / With Kind Regards
>  >  > Bart van Leeuwen
>  >  >
>  >  > ##############################################################
>  >  > # twitter: @semanticfire
>  >  > # netage.nl
>  >  > # _http://netage.nl_
> <http://netage.nl/><_http://netage.nl/_><_http://netage.nl/_>
>  >  > # Esdoornstraat 3
>  >  > # 3461ER Linschoten
>  >  > # tel. +31(0)6-53182997
>  >  > ##############################################################
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > From: Karen Coyle _<kcoyle@kcoyle.net>_ <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
>  >  > To: _public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org_
> <mailto:public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org>
>  >  > Date: 14-03-2016 15:44
>  >  > Subject: Re: rdf language tag contraints
>  >  >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  > Bart, thanks. I followed up on the history and it was indeed voted to
>  >  > become a requirement, but wasn't added. I will add it to the
>  >  > requirements list in the UC&R.
>  >  >
>  >  > kc
>  >  >
>  >  > On 3/13/16 9:46 AM, Bart van Leeuwen wrote:
>  >  >  > Hi All,
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Seeing all the productive discussions and positive vibe on the
> list I
>  >  >  > sat down and read the current Editors draft of SHACL [1]
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > One of the things that strike me is that I cannot have a simple
>  >  >  > constraint on a language tag.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > e.g. I need rdfs:label with '@en' for my application.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > I do see a example in the "Native Constraints" section [2] but that
>  >  >  > looks rather complex for my use case.
>  >  >  > On the issue tracker I did find ISSUE-35 [3] which resolves in
>  > allowing
>  >  >  > constraints on the language tag.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > I tried searching the mailing list archive but 'Language' is so
>  >  >  > ambiguous that it didn't help me answer this question from the
>  > archive.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Why is the use case mentioned in Issue 35 not there any more, and
>  > why is
>  >  >  > there no simple way constraint on the language of a literal?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > [1] _http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/_
>  >  >  > [2]
>  > _http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/#an-example-native-constraint_
>  >  >  > [3] _https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/35_
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > Met Vriendelijke Groet / With Kind Regards
>  >  >  > Bart van Leeuwen
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  > ##############################################################
>  >  >  > # twitter: @semanticfire
>  >  >  > # netage.nl
>  >  >  > # _http://netage.nl_ <http://netage.nl/>
>  > <_http://netage.nl/_><_http://netage.nl/_><_http://netage.nl/_>
>  >  >  > # Esdoornstraat 3
>  >  >  > # 3461ER Linschoten
>  >  >  > # tel. +31(0)6-53182997
>  >  >  > ##############################################################
>  >  >
>  >  > --
>  >  > Karen Coyle
>  >  > _kcoyle@kcoyle.net_
> <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net><http://kcoyle.net/>_http://kcoyle.net_
> <http://kcoyle.net/>
>  > <_http://kcoyle.net/_><_http://kcoyle.net/_>
>  >  > m: 1-510-435-8234
>  >  > skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Karen Coyle
>  > _kcoyle@kcoyle.net_ <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>_http://kcoyle.net_
> <http://kcoyle.net/><_http://kcoyle.net/_>
>  > m: 1-510-435-8234
>  > skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
> --
> Karen Coyle_
> __kcoyle@kcoyle.net_ <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>_http://kcoyle.net_
> <http://kcoyle.net/>
> m: 1-510-435-8234
> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
Received on Friday, 18 March 2016 16:06:37 UTC

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