- From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider <pfpschneider@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 08:13:40 -0800
- To: Arthur Ryman <ryman@ca.ibm.com>
- CC: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org
Well, there are multiple semantics for SPARQL 1.1 if you look at the entailment regimes. We could say, for example, that the semantics of shapes/constraints are to be specified in terms of the RDFS entailment regime for SPARQL. This would provide a tie to SPARQL as well as providing the right meaning for rdf:type, rdfs:subClassOf, rdfs:domain, and rdfs:range. It does appear that SPARQL without entailment regimes is sensitive to the surface form of literals. Can anyone determine whether this is true? peter PS: SPARQL 1.1 (the current version) is defined in terms of the 2004 version of RDF, not RDF 1.1. On 11/10/2014 07:38 AM, Arthur Ryman wrote: > Peter, > > I am proposing that we define the semantics of shapes/constraints in terms > of the data model specified in the RDF 1.1 spec. which does not include > classes, RDFS, etc. This is how the semantics of SPARQL is defined. > > Classes, RDF, OWL, rules, etc. enter in as ways to infer new graphs from > given graphs (entailment). Shapes/constraints may apply to either the raw > graph or the inferred graph, depending in the application. > _________________________________________________________ > Arthur Ryman > Chief Data Officer > SWG | Rational > 905.413.3077 (phone) | 416.939.5063 (cell) > IBM InterConnect 2015 > > > > > From: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com> > To: "Eric Prud'hommeaux" <eric@w3.org>, > Cc: Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org > Date: 11/07/2014 09:23 AM > Subject: Re: Shapes, Individuals, and Classes - OSLC Motivations > > > > OK, so then it's not just RDF graphs, it's something else. What is this > else? > > peter > > > On 11/07/2014 05:45 AM, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote: >> * Peter F. Patel-Schneider <pfpschneider@gmail.com> [2014-11-06 > 20:36-0800] >>> So your view is that all that counts is the graph? Nothing about >>> datatypes, or RDF, or RDFS? >> >> I suspect that OSLC wants datatypes, noting that Resource Shapes has >> an oslc:valueType predicate for identifying the datatype of a literal. >> >> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2014/SUBM-shapes-20140211/#valueType >> >> >>> peter >>> >>> >>> On 11/06/2014 12:01 PM, Arthur Ryman wrote: >>>> Peter, >>>> >>>> Commenting on your proposed wording of how to express the "decoupling" >>>> requirement. I'd go further and demote the notion of class to being > more >>>> like just another property and view the shape/constraints as applying > to >>>> the RDF representation of an information resource, i.e. to a set of >>>> triples (aka an RDF graph). Some of the triples will have rdf:type as > the >>>> predicate and those triples are useful for locating certain subject > nodes >>>> that we want to say more things about, e.g that they are the subjects > of >>>> triples that have certain other predicates, etc. >>>> _________________________________________________________ >>>> Arthur Ryman >>>> Chief Data Officer >>>> SWG | Rational >>>> 905.413.3077 (phone) | 416.939.5063 (cell) >>>> IBM InterConnect 2015 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com> >>>> To: Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, >>>> Cc: public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org >>>> Date: 11/06/2014 12:14 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Shapes, Individuals, and Classes - OSLC > Motivations >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I still don't know what "custom" means here with respect to RDF. As > far >>>> as I >>>> can tell any bit of an ontology, or class, or property, or constraint, > or >>>> shape could be called "custom". Now it may be that within OSLC there > is >>>> some >>>> notion of custom vs non-custom, but how can that notion be removed > from >>>> OSLC >>>> so that it can be used elsewhere? >>>> >>>> Similarly, the notions of "specification", "implementation", > "project", >>>> etc., >>>> appear to me to be specific to OSLC, and particular to the design >>>> methodology >>>> you outline below, and using them to drive a spec could, I think, tie > that >>>> >>>> spec quite closely to the design methodology. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As a contrast, here is what I believe should be used to say that > classes >>>> and >>>> shapes/constraints are decoupled. >>>> >>>> Definition: Classes and shapes/constraints are decoupled if the >>>> specification >>>> can use different sets of shapes/constraints on the same class. For >>>> example, >>>> if the specification permits the ontology >>>> ex:Person rdf:type rdfs:Class . >>>> ex:name rdf:type rdf:Property . >>>> ex:name rdfs:domain ex:Person . >>>> to be used with the constraint set >>>> ex:Person < exists ex:name >>>> (every person has a "known" value for its name) >>>> or used with the constraint set >>>> ex:Person < all ex:name xsd:string >>>> (all "known" names of people are strings) >>>> then it will be said to allow the decoupling of constraints/shapes and >>>> classes. >>>> >>>> >>>> A stronger notion would be that shapes/constraints are independent of >>>> classes. >>>> This could be defined as: >>>> >>>> Definition: Classes and shapes/constraints are independent if some >>>> shapes/constraints do not use class membership in their definition. > For >>>> example, the following constraint is class-independent: >>>> exists ex:name < exactly 1 ex:name >>>> (if something has a "known" name then it has exactly one "known" name) >>>> >>>> >>>> peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/06/2014 04:59 AM, Arthur Ryman wrote: >>>>> Peter, >>>>> >>>>> OSLC defines specification for RDF representation of resources in >>>> several >>>>> domains, e.g. Requirements, Quality, Change Management etc. A >>>>> specification typically defines a class and several properties. >>>>> Implementations are allowed to add new RDF properties but they don't >>>>> necessarily introduce new RDF classes. Furthermore, within an >>>>> implementation, users may add custom RDF properties on a >>>>> project-by-project basis, but that doesn't change the RDF class. >>>> Therefore >>>>> different projects use different Shapes but the Shapes only differ by >>>> RDF >>>>> properties, not RDF classes. That is what I mean by decoupling Shapes >>>> and >>>>> Classes. >>>>> >>>>> I will elaborate this on the wiki. >>>>> _________________________________________________________ >>>>> Arthur Ryman >>>>> Chief Data Officer >>>>> SWG | Rational >>>>> 905.413.3077 (phone) | 416.939.5063 (cell) >>>>> IBM InterConnect 2015 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com> >>>>> To: Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org, >>>>> Date: 11/05/2014 05:27 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Shapes, Individuals, and Classes - OSLC > Motivations >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm still wondering what you think it means to decouple shapes and >>>>> classes. >>>>> The first motivation you provide is supported by both SPIN and OWL >>>>> constraints. I can't figure out what custom properties have to do > with >>>>> classes, or constraints, or shapes. The behaviour you appear to be >>>>> looking >>>>> for in your second paragraph is also supported by both SPIN and OWL >>>>> constraints. >>>>> >>>>> I had thought that this was ironed out at the Face-to-Face, but I > guess >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/05/2014 01:47 PM, Arthur Ryman wrote: >>>>>> There are a few motivations for decoupling shapes and classes. One > is >>>>> that >>>>>> the creation shape may be different than the update shape. Another > has >>>>> to >>>>>> do with custom properties. I'll write up the following in the wiki. >>>>>> >>>>>> OSLC supports an open content model for resources. It is common for >>>>> tools >>>>>> to add their own custom properties, and for projects within a tool > to >>>>> have >>>>>> different user-defined properties. For example, consider a bug > tracking >>>>>> tool. Project A may add a custom property foo and project B may add >>>> bar. >>>>>> All projects use the same RDF type for bug resources, e.g. >>>>>> oslc_cm:ChangeRequest. However, the shape for resources in project A >>>>>> differs for the shape for project B. >>>>>> _________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Arthur Ryman >>>>>> Chief Data Officer >>>>>> SWG | Rational >>>>>> 905.413.3077 (phone) | 416.939.5063 (cell) >>>>>> IBM InterConnect 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > >
Received on Monday, 10 November 2014 16:14:10 UTC