Re: Using schema.org Dataset metadata properties

Stasinos,

Yes, adopting DC would have the same effect: the point I was addressing was whether the reference (to whatever vocabulary) needs to be normative or informative. I think it needs to be normative.

Jeni

-----Original Message-----
From: Stasinos Konstantopoulos <konstant@iit.demokritos.gr>
Reply: Stasinos Konstantopoulos <konstant@iit.demokritos.gr>>
Date: 16 September 2014 at 03:30:09
To: Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com>>
Cc: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>>, W3C CSV on the Web Working Group <public-csv-wg@w3.org>>
Subject:  Re: Using schema.org Dataset metadata properties

> Jeni, Ivan, all,
>  
> I'm not quite sure I understand the argument. Wouldn't adopting DC
> terms have the exact same effect, since dcterms:publisher is an object
> property?
>  
> Best,
> stasinos
>  
>  
> On 15 September 2014 20:57, Jeni Tennison wrote:
> > Ivan,
> >
> > Given that we’re adopting JSON-LD for the metadata file, anyone *can* use any vocabulary.  
> I was thinking that we should including the binding of ‘dc’ to the Dublin Core namespace  
> so that people can easily add metadata in that scheme if they want to.
> >
> > I think there is huge value in having a predictable structure to metadata, as it helps  
> with validation, display and conversion. Adopting JSON-LD in effect enforces a particular  
> structure, eg saying that “publisher” must look like:
> >
> > “publisher”: {
> > “@id”: "http://www.hefce.ac.uk/“,
> > “name": "Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE)"
> > }
> >
> > or
> >
> > “publisher”: "http://www.hefce.ac.uk/“
> >
> > and not
> >
> > “publisher”: "Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE)"
> >
> > Adopting schema.org normatively would mean saying that “publisher” means what it  
> means in schema.org, which I think is what we would want to do.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeni
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ivan Herman  
> > Reply: Ivan Herman >
> > Date: 14 September 2014 at 08:07:03
> > To: Jeni Tennison >
> > Cc: W3C CSV on the Web Working Group >
> > Subject: Re: Using schema.org Dataset metadata properties
> >
> >> I have a meta-question on this. Is the list of terms listed in the document normative  
> or
> >> informative? The current document does not make a difference (ie, by default, it is  
> normative,
> >> including the references), but I presume this is simply because we never asked ourselves  
> >> the question.
> >>
> >> At the moment, the text says:
> >>
> >> [[[
> >> Descriptions may contain any properties defined by [DC-TERMS] to describe the table.  
> >> This specification does not define any application behaviour associated with these  
> >> properties being present, except that validation of metadata files must check that,  
> >> if they are present, they adhere to the syntax defined here.
> >> ]]]
> >>
> >> This at first suggests that the [Dublin Core] vocabulary is informative (and optional)  
> >> but then it mandates specific value syntax for some of the properties when validating.  
> >> I think it could be debated whether this additional validation requirement actually  
> >> makes the reference normative, but it is not clear. I guess the question is whether  
> we
> >> will have a notion of conforming metadata, of a possible metadata validator, and what  
> >> they are supposed to exactly do.
> >>
> >> Why is this question relevant? Because if the whole section is normative than we MUST  
> >> make a choice on whether, for a specific goal, we choose DCTERM or schema. If it is informative,  
> >> there is no problem referring to both and let the end user decide (and, actually, the  
> exact
> >> value syntax issue could also be removed simply referring to the definition of these  
> >> terms by DCMI and schema.org, respectively.)
> >>
> >> (There is also an editorial/W3C issue. There are fairly stringent rules on whether  
> we
> >> can refer, _normatively_, to an external document. While this is not a problem with  
> DCTERM,
> >> this has not yet done before for schema.org, and it may lead to some discussions...)  
> >>
> >> Ivan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13 Sep 2014, at 18:28 , Jeni Tennison wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > In the current metadata document here:
> >> >
> >> > http://w3c.github.io/csvw/metadata/#common-properties
> >> >
> >> > the spec maps adopts the list of Dublin Core properties for describing tables etc.  
> As
> >> ISSUE 6 says, this might not be the right choice: there might be other standard vocabularies  
> >> that should be used instead or as well.
> >> >
> >> > On the call this week, Dan suggested using schema.org instead, namely the properties  
> >> on Dataset here:
> >> >
> >> > http://schema.org/Dataset
> >> >
> >> > The properties there are informed by DCAT which itself was informed by Dublin Core.  
> >> >
> >> > Any thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > Jeni
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: CSV on the Web Working Group Issue Tracker
> >> > Reply: CSV on the Web Working Group >
> >> > Date: 10 September 2014 at 13:23:37
> >> > To: jeni@jenitennison.com >
> >> > Subject: ACTION-26: Write to mailing list re using schema.org rather than dublin  
> core
> >> for metadata about csv files, then binding decision on following telcon (CSV on the  
> Web
> >> Working Group)
> >> >
> >> >> ACTION-26: Write to mailing list re using schema.org rather than dublin core for  
> metadata
> >> >> about csv files, then binding decision on following telcon (CSV on the Web Working  
> >> Group)
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/track/actions/26
> >> >>
> >> >> On: Jeni Tennison
> >> >> Due: 2014-09-17
> >> >>
> >> >> If you do not want to be notified on new action items for this group, please update  
> your
> >> >> settings at:
> >> >> http://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/track/users/33715#settings
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Jeni Tennison
> >> > http://www.jenitennison.com/
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Ivan Herman, W3C
> >> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> >> mobile: +31-641044153
> >> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
> >> WebID: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf#me
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Jeni Tennison
> > http://www.jenitennison.com/
> >
>  
>  
>  

--  
Jeni Tennison
http://www.jenitennison.com/

Received on Tuesday, 16 September 2014 08:59:23 UTC