- From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 17:21:24 +0200
- To: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov-ietf@shaftek.org>
- Cc: Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com>, W3C CSV on the Web Working Group <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <10A59C4E-ED55-42EF-AA3F-598B665A147D@w3.org>
I am not really an expert. But my impression, reading, eg: http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup that a simple ltr/rtl flag, at least on the table level, should be enough. Ivan On 09 May 2014, at 14:15 , Yakov Shafranovich <yakov-ietf@shaftek.org> wrote: > Is ltr or rtl like in HTML sufficient or do we need to import > something similar to CSS3 direction/unicode-bidi, or XSL writing mode? > > Yakov > > > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >> Hi Jeni, >> >> On 08 May 2014, at 19:38 , Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com> wrote: >> >>> Ivan, >>> >>> OK. I think the important thing to note in the model document is from a parsing standpoint the normal parsing applies. >>> >>> But given your comments I'm inclined to move the majority of the text into the metadata spec, to have the ability to set the default paragraph direction at the level of the table, columns and cells. >> >> This actually raises the issue about the 'dialect' settings in section 5 of the syntax document and the metadata entries in the metadata document. >> >> As far as I am concerned, the RTL/LTR flag for the table as a whole should be in the parsing section: indeed, knowledge about this flag is indeed important to establish the correct order of the column. Ie, if the flag is RTL, that means the correct order, when turned into an internal representation of the core tabular data, is to take the columns from the right. I do not think that we should necessary depend on the metadata to establish this step (although, as an information, it is probably a good idea to have that information in the metadata, too). >> >> I think a RTL/LTR flag for each column or for a cell in the metadata part makes indeed lots of sense. >> >> >>> Falling back on the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm is the right thing to do in the case explicit bidi instructions aren't found. >>> >> >> +1 >> >>> I'll rework along those lines. >>> >>> Jeni >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> From: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org >>> Reply: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org >>> Date: 8 May 2014 at 17:28:56 >>> To: Jeni Tennison jeni@jenitennison.com >>> Cc: W3C CSV on the Web Working Group public-csv-wg@w3.org, Yakov Shafranovich yakov-ietf@shaftek.org >>> Subject: Re: RTL Directionality use case #19 added >>> >>>> Hi Jeni, >>>> >>>> thanks, I was the one nagging about this:-) >>>> >>>> On 08 May 2014, at 16:47 , Jeni Tennison wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I was tasked with adding something about RTL directionality based on use case #19. >>>>> >>>>> I've put something into the Model document here: >>>>> >>>>> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#bidirectionality-in-csv-files >>>>> >>>>> Comments welcome. >>>> >>>> Well... I am not sure the algorithm you describe will work easily in practice, at least >>>> for the table directionality... >>>> >>>> - Retrieving the directionality may be fairly complex task for a user level. I must admit >>>> I am not sure how I would do that, say, in Python from the top of my head (I say Python because >>>> that is the programming language I am most familiar with) >>>> >>>> - Just as HTML needs its own tags to handle bidi, don't we incur the danger to run into similar >>>> problems? What if the some of the headers and, to be really unlucky, both the rightmost >>>> and the leftmost, are a left-to-right text (eg, mixing English and Hebrew headers)? >>>> The algorithm might believe that the table is a LTR one, although it is, in fact, a RTL one, >>>> or vice versa >>>> >>>> Bottomline: I believe we need to add a separate flag in section 5 to indicate directionality, >>>> the same way as directionality may be set explicitly for an HTML file. This should have >>>> the highest priority on setting the table directionality >>>> >>>> B.t.w., there may be a number of rows that are to be skipped. I presume those should not >>>> come into play for the table directionality. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Ivan >>>> >>>> P.S. We may want to ask the advise of somebody in the I18N community. Should I ask either >>>> Felix or Richard, our two international guys in the team? Or should we send an official >>>> note to the I18N WG? The latter is probably the best approach. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jeni >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> From: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org >>>>> Reply: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org >>>>> Date: 6 May 2014 at 08:20:29 >>>>> To: Eric Stephan ericphb@gmail.com >>>>> Cc: Jeremy Tandy jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk, Ceolin, D. d.ceolin@vu.nl, Yakov >>>> Shafranovich yakov-ietf@shaftek.org, W3C CSV on the Web Working Group public-csv-wg@w3.org >>>>> Subject: Re: RTL Directionality use case #19 added >>>>> >>>>>> Oops, sorry, I read the other mail first and I put my comment onto that one:-( Just for >>>> the >>>>>> records: >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe that use case should also lead to a separate requirement, something like >>>> any >>>>>> parser should be informed about RTL and retrieve the headers accordingly for the CSV+. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ivan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 06 May 2014, at 05:54 , Eric Stephan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've made an attempt at the use case for the RTL directionality and >>>>>>> checked in the edits in github. >>>>>>> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/use-cases-and-requirements/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is still missing, is incorrect, and needs to be changed? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eric Stephan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C >>>>>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead >>>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>>>>> mobile: +31-641044153 >>>>>> GPG: 0x343F1A3D >>>>>> WebID: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf#me >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jeni Tennison >>>>> http://www.jenitennison.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C >>>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead >>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>>> mobile: +31-641044153 >>>> GPG: 0x343F1A3D >>>> WebID: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf#me >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeni Tennison >>> http://www.jenitennison.com/ >> >> >> ---- >> Ivan Herman, W3C >> Digital Publishing Activity Lead >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >> mobile: +31-641044153 >> GPG: 0x343F1A3D >> WebID: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf#me >> >> >> >> >> > ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Digital Publishing Activity Lead Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 GPG: 0x343F1A3D WebID: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf#me
Received on Friday, 9 May 2014 15:21:54 UTC