- From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 14:31:08 +0100
- To: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov-ietf@shaftek.org>
- CC: Public CSVW WG <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
Ah, I think you may have been caught by the change to summer time in Europe. Times for this WG are fixed at 13:00 London time, i.e. the next meeting is http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CSVW+WG&iso=20140423T13&p1=136 Phil. On 09/04/2014 14:09, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > I think I am confused about the times. What time of the date are phone > conferences scheduled for? > > Yakov > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> The minutes of today's meeting are at >> http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-minutes.html. >> >> Note that the WG will skip next week's meeting so that the next one is on >> Wednesday 23rd April. >> >> A snapshot of today's minutes are below. >> >> >> CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference >> >> 09 Apr 2014 >> >> See also: [2]IRC log >> >> [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-irc >> >> Attendees >> >> Present >> AndyS, fresco, +1.937.207.aaaa, phila, JeniT, MathewT, >> DavideCeolin, danbri, +44.777.586.aabb, jtandy >> >> Regrets >> Axel, Stasinos, Alfonso >> >> Chair >> Jeni >> >> Scribe >> Andy Seaborne >> >> Contents >> >> * [3]Topics >> 1. [4]UCR >> 2. [5]Conversion >> 3. [6]Model for tabular data >> * [7]Summary of Action Items >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> <trackbot> Date: 09 April 2014 >> >> <scribe> scribe: Andy Seaborne >> >> <scribe> scribenick: AndyS >> >> <danbri> thanks AndyS! >> >> AndyS: Regrets for next week. >> >> <JeniT> JeniT: Regrets for next week >> >> <JeniT> [8]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html >> >> [8] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html >> >> <danbri> looks good >> >> AndyS: Not all actions recorded in the tracker >> >> <danbri> 3 of them are for me; i'll make todos directly. >> >> APPROVED: Minutes >> [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html >> >> [9] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html >> >> UCR >> >> Davide: will sync with jeremy >> >> phila: making progress on my action for a UC >> >> <phila> ACTION: phila to add use case linking from metadata to >> the data [recorded in >> [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/09-csvw-minutes.html#action01] >> >> <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - to add use case linking from >> metadata to the data [on Phil Archer - due 2014-04-16]. >> >> <danbri> (phil's action was on me last week as "chase phila for >> his usecase in which a party provides metadata for another's >> csv"; I declare my work done) >> >> Conversion >> >> [11]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/ >> >> [11] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/ >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: we had a telcon yesterday >> >> <JeniT> ... including jtandy, Gregg, Juan >> >> <JeniT> ... we're looking at processing from CSV to CSV to >> clean up the general data >> >> <JeniT> ... eg fixing up new lines, delimiters, date formats >> >> <JeniT> ... thought better to do that as rewriting CSV >> >> <JeniT> ... then convert clean CSV to RDF/JSON/XML >> >> <JeniT> ... R2RML is the nuclear option for complicated >> transforms >> >> <JeniT> ... we didn't push on the boundaries around that >> >> <JeniT> ... similarly might want to do RDF-to-RDF or >> JSON-to-JSON transforms after conversion >> >> <JeniT> ... we don't want to repeat work done elsewhere, or add >> more tools to end users' toolchain >> >> <JeniT> ... we discussed on what's published >> >> <JeniT> ... there's CSVs published as the outcome of a longer >> process >> >> <JeniT> ... shared schemas, shared transformations, custom >> mappings >> >> <JeniT> ... at scale & in volume; sharing parts of the files is >> beneficial >> >> <JeniT> ... vs someone taking CSV from data.gov.uk >> >> <JeniT> ... and adding their own transform >> >> <JeniT> ... they need something more self-contained >> >> <JeniT> ... a single file to control the transformation >> >> <JeniT> ... also whether the CSV was created without the web in >> mind, or with the web in mind >> >> <JeniT> ... particularly with spotting links & data formats >> >> <JeniT> ... Gregg is going to look at pulling out his transform >> description to apply it independently of JSON-LD >> >> <JeniT> ... we're hopeful that there will be commonality in >> conversion to JSON >> >> <JeniT> ... which kind of depends on whether the conversion is >> to JSON-LD >> >> <JeniT> ... had a good chat with Ivan when we met up >> >> <JeniT> ... comments on what's been written would be great >> >> <JeniT> ... it's a bit scruffy, but the general approach is >> there >> >> <JeniT> ... I'm using the term 'basic mapping' rather than >> 'direct mapping' >> >> <danbri> 'simple mapping'? >> >> <JeniT> ... there's a progression of complexity >> >> <danbri> 'wishfulthinking mapping' >> >> <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask status of test case csvs for >> this exploration >> >> <JeniT> danbri: are there test files? >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: there's tests in the repo >> >> <JeniT> danbri: are they mainstream examples or test cases? >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: the test ones from gkellogg are focused >> >> <JeniT> danbri: we'd like mainstream examples >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: I've put some of those in the document >> >> <JeniT> ... if you could work through one of the examples you >> want to put in, that would be great, like jtandy did >> >> <danbri> >> [12]https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/simple-w >> eather-observation.md >> >> [12] >> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/examples/simple-weather-observation.md >> >> JTandy: we also talked about was charter and metadata in RDF >> ... may be distinct from the mapping framing (not in RDF) >> ... want to test this with WG. >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: yes, metadata about the CSV file may or may not >> be in RDF >> >> <JeniT> ... it might be simpler to have one language that >> drives all the mappings >> >> <JeniT> ... which might include provenance etc >> >> <phila> from the charter "The vocabulary should be defined, or >> should have an encoding, in standard RDF and, wherever possible >> and appropriate, should refer to, and reuse, existing >> vocabularies developed elsewhere." - i.e. it doesn't have to >> *only* be in RDF >> >> <JeniT> ... even in JSON-LD, the context part isn't RDF >> >> <JeniT> jtandy: we talked about gkellogg pulling out the >> transformation stuff from JSON-LD to see if it could be >> expressed in Turtle >> >> jeniT: easy to write might mean TTL >> ... want to see the things it will say to guide the syntax >> choice. >> ... separating CSV-specific xform from JSON-LD will be good., >> ... nudged Rufus and Ross Jones re JSON. >> >> <JeniT> [13]https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Conversions >> >> [13] https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Conversions >> >> <danbri> aside - another JSON-LD launch at google this week: >> [14]https://devsite.googleplex.com/webmasters/business-location >> -pages/schema.org-examples (i.e. we like JSON-LD) >> >> [14] >> https://devsite.googleplex.com/webmasters/business-location-pages/schema.org-examples >> >> Model for tabular data >> >> jenit: e.g. import into relational DB >> >> davide: may have some interesting data as example >> >> <jtandy> danbri - that looks like an internal link (googleplex) >> ... just tried it :-) >> >> subtopic: null fields >> >> <JeniT> >> [15]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#core-tabular-data-model >> >> [15] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#core-tabular-data-model >> >> jenit: "What is a null field" comment from D Booth >> ... absent and empty : same? different? >> >> jtandy: in the discussion, defaults value need to be handled. >> >> <danbri> lost audio >> >> jtandy: empty field returned. Have a explicit "null" marker >> (999, whatever) >> >> subtopic: packaging >> >> <JeniT> [16]http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/ >> >> [16] http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/ >> >> jenit: TAG work >> >> <jtandy> the "999" marker would be declared in the metadata >> annotation as a token indicating a "null field" / missing field >> >> jenit: need arises in various places >> ... general need for web development >> ... we need to do similar - CSV(s) and metadata >> >> <JeniT> >> [17]http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/#downloading-d >> ata-for-local-processing >> >> [17] >> http://w3ctag.github.io/packaging-on-the-web/#downloading-data-for-local-processing >> >> jenit: link to draft of the TAG direction with a specific >> example for this WG >> ... individual file are still on the web >> ... but that a "package fetch" pulls them all at once. >> ... individual files LInk back to their metadata >> ... streamable proposed based on multi-part >> ... comments invited >> >> <jtandy> ok - packaging stuff looks interesting >> >> <phila> no questions but it's interesting, thank you >> >> danbri: Other groups feedback? >> >> jenit: no HTTP changes >> >> danbri: what about HTTP layer optimizations? e.g. caching >> >> jenit: overlap with HTTP/2 >> ... would need packaging aware caching to cache sub parts but >> format allows cache header per part >> ... will write to the list >> >> subtopic: metadata packaging >> ... metadata format >> >> jenit: hold back until we know what's in it >> >> jtandy: been looking at "Simple Data Packaging" (now renamed) >> looks very close >> ... start from that? >> >> jenit: Would be good to start from there - except it assumes >> JSON. >> >> jtandy: start with the JSON assumption and see how it is >> received on WD >> >> <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to say start from SDP as a >> *vocabulary* is fine, but something that fits with RDF is also >> important >> >> danbri: schema.org ==> vocabulary start good, but syntax of >> JSON only might be a barrier. >> >> <jtandy> +1 to taking SDP metadata and expressing in RDF over >> JSON-LD >> >> phila: Uncomfortable if excludes the dataprotocols work when it >> need not. >> ... significant community >> ... at least add conversions to/from. >> >> <JeniT> AndyS: I think there was something that said the data >> package might become JSON-LD >> >> <danbri> i can't find a good link for SDF, was it renamed? >> >> <JeniT> ... I'd like to get a sense of how successful that >> format has been >> >> <JeniT> ... and if there are any others >> >> <danbri> [18]http://dataprotocols.org/tabular-data-package/ >> >> [18] http://dataprotocols.org/tabular-data-package/ >> >> <JeniT> ... I thought it was a good starting point, but I >> realised I didn't know what the reception had been >> >> jenai: DSPL alternative >> >> jenit: DSPL alternative >> >> <danbri> DSPL is [19]https://developers.google.com/public-data/ >> ; Omar I mentioned earlier was working to migrate this to >> schema.org / RDF / JSON world >> >> [19] https://developers.google.com/public-data/ >> >> <danbri> [20]https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/LookInside >> >> [20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/LookInside >> >> jenit: used the format in our (ODI) tools >> ... and providing feedback (ldodds) >> ... would they contrib a draft? >> >> phila: Rufus is IE in this WG because it helps align the work. >> ... this WG will likely go beyond that work as extensions. >> Maybe WG NOTE for existing work. >> >> <danbri> I'd suggest we take it as expressivity requirements >> and we 'should' at least have a clear mapping >> >> jenit: will contact Rufus >> ... can we take into account data package work? >> >> <JeniT> ... in the conversions >> >> <JeniT> [21]http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#package >> >> [21] http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#package >> >> jenit: AOB? >> >> jtandy: timescales? >> ... next publication esp UCR doc? >> >> phila: no lower limit on repub cycle >> >> jtandy: Happen to move forward in May >> >> <jtandy> s /Happen/Happy/ >> >> jenit: UCR will remain "open" to capture new discoveries. >> >> jtandy: requirements are placeholders, more categorization and >> "accept" requirements >> >> jenit: aim of mid May with more UCs. >> ... ?? >> ... after Easter , process to accept requirements. >> >> danbri: propose skip next week >> >> <jtandy> +1 to skip >> >> danbri to chair next time, 2 weeks time. Wed after Easter. >> >> ADJOURNED >> >> <phila> DNM 23 April >> > -- Phil Archer W3C Data Activity Lead http://www.w3.org/2013/data/ http://philarcher.org +44 (0)7887 767755 @philarcher1
Received on Wednesday, 9 April 2014 13:31:42 UTC