Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-display-4] reading-flow and mix of auto-flow and explicit items (#11208)

The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-display-4] reading-flow and mix of auto-flow and explicit items `, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: Resolution to restore previous reading order property and use it as a starting point for reading order flow.`
* `RESOLVED: as a starting point, define that if the reading order of 2 items is equivalent, reading flow breaks the tie`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;nicole> Reading flow and the mix of outflow and explicit items<br>
&lt;nicole> asterns: limit to necessary for HTML folks to progress<br>
&lt;nicole> Rachel: Some items you want to choose position and mix of autoplaced items. How does reading flow work with that<br>
&lt;nicole> Rachel: probably by applying it to the container and children. Which we originally discussed and decided not to do<br>
&lt;ydaniv> s/asterns:/astearns:/<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelandrew: a bit like order, but only affects reading flow<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: works find for explicit source order<br>
&lt;astearns> s/find/fine/<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: simple example of mixed - a masonry layout with a sidebar. Title, nav, etc. Positioned on right aesthetically<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: would be 5th rather than 1st<br>
&lt;florian> q+<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelanderew: do we fix it now or in the future. Are we leaving the door open to other solutions. How does it impact the HTML spec? Otherwise not urgent, but necessary<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelandrew: would reading flow container also encompass this situation?<br>
&lt;astearns> ack florian<br>
&lt;nicole> florian: we want this now. Removed because we started with only explicit ordering, was a bad solution. Overall solution combo of 2<br>
&lt;nicole> florian: general scheme on container<br>
&lt;nicole> florian: override on children<br>
&lt;nicole> florian: design of thing that applies to container should account for being able to override children<br>
&lt;nicole> florian: so both pieces work together<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/so both/design both together so both/<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelandrew: reasonable, can bring this back. Identified use cases they hadn't considered before. Good to bring it back to spec. Also bike shed name. Does it affect HTML implementation<br>
&lt;astearns> ack fantasai<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelandrew: Probably doesn't, since it is just a different way of doing ordering<br>
&lt;Di> q+<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: set of items, here is order, tells HTML to do the rest. HTML spec shouldn't change. Reading flow, reading order, and ____ will provide input to HTML<br>
&lt;astearns> ack Di<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/___/things like dense packing/<br>
&lt;nicole> di: HTML side is reading flow container, shouldn't override it. Should be fine for the hTML spec<br>
&lt;nicole> asterns: design as a whole rather than piecemeal<br>
&lt;nicole> di: agree<br>
&lt;nicole> astearns: Resolution to restore previous reading order property and use it as a starting point for reading order flow.<br>
&lt;astearns> ack fantasai<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> +1<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: as a starting point, define that if the reading order of 2 items is equivalent, reading flow breaks the tie<br>
&lt;nicole> RESOLVED: Resolution to restore previous reading order property and use it as a starting point for reading order flow.<br>
&lt;nicole> RESOLVED: as a starting point, define that if the reading order of 2 items is equivalent, reading flow breaks the tie<br>
&lt;dbaron> is there a new condition that it only works in reading order containers?<br>
&lt;nicole> astearns: David can you raise an issue?<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: does the reading order prop only impact reading order containers or does attempting to use reading flow or order cause it to become a reading order container<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelanderew: masonry is an exception, but for everything else you'd need to say on the container<br>
&lt;dbaron> (I was just asking that to try to ensure the resolutions capture stuff that was said earlier in the discussion.)<br>
&lt;dbaron> Present-<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: default order is source order. HTML needs a concept of is it a reading order container, must be yes to do reordering. If it has a non initial value on any child than the container needs to be a reading flow container. From css user perspective, either do it auto or make them change something else<br>
&lt;nicole> racheandrew: prefers explicit, like flexbox<br>
&lt;nicole> rachelandrew: always positive, this is a reading flow container, so they know they are reordering. Doing it by accident without thinking would be bad<br>
&lt;astearns> notes that the explicit container may not only be due to reading-flow being set explicitly, if the default value creates reading flow containers for some layout modes<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: not sure. Cases where we do want to double opt in. Other cases where the child can decide on their own<br>
&lt;dbaron> (from my own perspective I might ask whether we want a more complicated name so it doesn't look like reading-order is a simpler thing than reading-order-items)<br>
&lt;nicole> fantasai: for example z index is just the child<br>
&lt;fantasai> we renamed reading-order-items to reading-flow<br>
&lt;fantasai> dbaron: ^<br>
</details>


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Received on Thursday, 30 January 2025 23:14:07 UTC