- From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:36:45 +0000
- To: public-css-archive@w3.org
The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-fonts] Specifying a direction without a specific angle`, and agreed to the following: * `RESOLVED: Add left/right (and maybe logical variants) to font-style, and to @font-face` <details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary> <TabAtkins> florian: this isn't an isolated issue, a bunch of issues with related use-cases<br> <TabAtkins> florian: tyring to isolate, but it might bring the whole convo<br> <TabAtkins> florian: one thing we're trying to talk about is, it's more frequent in some languages than others to have italics and obliques go either way<br> <TabAtkins> florian: right or left leaning<br> <TabAtkins> florian: at the moment this is invisible to the platform<br> <ChrisL> q+<br> <TabAtkins> florian: a user could try and pick the right font that goes the way they want, and it looks right, but the font stack has no awareness of whether it's learning left or right<br> <TabAtkins> florian: and thus can't help you<br> <TabAtkins> florian: so if you have chosen - say you're in Arabic it makes more sense to lean left<br> <TabAtkins> florian: but we have some font fallback, browser will pick another font or synthesize one. it knows you're using italic, but it might italic rightwards<br> <TabAtkins> florian: it knew you were italic, but didn't know you were left-leaning<br> <TabAtkins> florian: so i think there should be this information<br> <TabAtkins> florian: when you specify "italic", or providing an italic font, shoudl be possible to specify it's "left-leaning" italic. or be able to *request* a left-leaning italic<br> <TabAtkins> florian: some discussion about what fallback's allowed.<br> <TabAtkins> florian: seaprate issues about those, not currently quite ideal<br> <TabAtkins> florian: but the fact that you can't express the lean direction needs to be addressed<br> <astearns> ack ChrisL<br> <TabAtkins> florian: so i propose a left/right keyword optionally allowed in italic and oblique specifications<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: something that has improved since this was raised, it used to be you could ask for an italic angle at, say, -5 degrees, and if there was a -20 and +8, it would choose the +8 becuase it was closer. Now we require you to search the same direciton first.<br> <TabAtkins> florian: for obliques you can specify the angle and it has a sign, so you have the lean direction (and more than that)<br> <TabAtkins> florian: but for italic there's no angle at all<br> <TabAtkins> florian: you just say "italic", no direction<br> <ChrisL> q+<br> <TabAtkins> florian: so arguably you could say this is solved in oblique fonts since you can say an angle (but it shoudl be possible to omit the angle), but italic doesn't have it<br> <TabAtkins> florian: in variable fonts there's a bit of this but not in non-variable<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: disagree. in opentype ther'es SLNT axis<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: also ITAL, which is a bool<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: this may involve the SLNT axis, but doesn't have to<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: you just can't say "i want 30% italic"<br> <TabAtkins> florian: you say there is variable information about angle, is that only variable fonts?<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: don't know if non-variables have such information<br> <TabAtkins> florian: Okay, two bits. One is expressing what the font does, the other is requesting.<br> <TabAtkins> florian: expressing might already be int he data, might be augmentable by @font-face<br> <TabAtkins> florian: but on request, there's just no way to express "i want a left-leaning font"<br> <TabAtkins> weinig: I think italic is a variation axis from 0-1, not just a bool<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: there's also a question of if we're just talking about left/right, or also add forwards/backwards as crissov suggested?<br> <TabAtkins> florian: ltr/rtl dependent keywords? possibly.<br> <ChrisL> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/dvaraxistag_ital<br> <TabAtkins> florian: So, my primary demand would be to add left/right (and maybe logicals) to font-style property. in some fonts we'll have sufficient information to pick this.<br> <TabAtkins> florian: And secondarily, once we can express the request, do we want to complement with a descriptor in @font-face to let you specify the direction if the font doesn't specify.<br> <ChrisL> "An italic font should not be characterized in the STAT table as being italic and also having some slant, unless the font family includes multiple italic designs with different amounts of slant."<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: Can we resolve to add this info to the property and to a describptor?<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: Do people need more discussion?<br> <TabAtkins> (sounds good to me, but I'm weakly opinionated here)<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: we could add it and see fi people complain?<br> <TabAtkins> proposed: Add these keywords to font-style and to the @font-face descriptor.<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: objections?<br> <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Add left/right (and maybe logical variants) to font-style, and to @font-face<br> </details> -- GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9392#issuecomment-2625281994 using your GitHub account -- Sent via github-notify-ml as configured in https://github.com/w3c/github-notify-ml-config
Received on Thursday, 30 January 2025 18:36:46 UTC