- From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 01:05:07 +0000
- To: public-css-archive@w3.org
The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-fonts] Add generic font family, Khmer Mul`, and agreed to the following: * `RESOLVED: add the new keyword to Fonts 4` <details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary> <TabAtkins> addison: Richard has a proposal for a new generic family for Khmer mul<br> <TabAtkins> addison: specific generic type used in Khmer language<br> <ChrisL> q+<br> <TabAtkins> addison: we've done some generics, and those have mostly been things with widely-installed font bases, and in langs that are more familiar<br> <TabAtkins> addison: this one is less familiar, and the install base is more questionable. so maybe probing the boundaries of the rules for adding a generic<br> <TabAtkins> addison: Richard has a description for what is a "true" generic for this language, should we add it?<br> <TabAtkins> florian: I think, having talked with Richard, an argument is that this is similar to nastaliq, not visually but in terms of what kind of generic it is<br> <TabAtkins> florian: it's a distinctive type of lettering in this language, there's multiple fonts that do it. maybe some are preinstalled on windows, but not a lot of other platforms<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: in addition to what richard has written, i'll need a string of text in this language rendered as an image<br> <TabAtkins> florian: that's in the issue<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: good<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: I don't know if we have this for other generics, but is there metadata in a font that identifies this?<br> <TabAtkins> xfq: no<br> <TabAtkins> addison: don't think so<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: do we have it for other generics?<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: no<br> <TabAtkins> xfq: unlike nastaliq, which is a different - for regular Arabic speakers you can recognize the nast font, but for Urdu you might need to use nastaliq<br> <TabAtkins> xfq: but for this is more like for headings<br> <astearns> ack ChrisL<br> <TabAtkins> florian: this is more like nastaliq in Persian than Urdu. In Urdu you always use nastaliq, in Persian it's a distinct style that is valid.<br> <TabAtkins> florian: to dbaron's point, two ways<br> <xfq> s/nast font/Naskh font<br> <TabAtkins> florian: you ship in an OS that's well known, you know the set of fonts shipped with it, you assign those to this keyword<br> <TabAtkins> florian: alternative is a setting screen where users can say which font to use for a particular font<br> <dbaron> s/nast/naskh/<br> <TabAtkins> florian: maybe also browsers could have a big database of fonts that exist, but less likely<br> <emilio> q+<br> <astearns> ack emilio<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: on some OSes, mostly Android and other non-Mac Unix variants, font lookup is generally forwarded to the OS<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: so you can ask fontconfig for a "sans-serif" font<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: that's what I think all browsers do on Android/linux<br> <xfq> MoolBoran on Windows in this case<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: should we forward this request also?<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: so browsers aren't responsible for making this choice, bc we don't necessarily know it<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: like, is this a higher level request to other software as well?<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: do we specify how other generics work?<br> <TabAtkins> [no]<br> <astearns> s/work/select fonts/<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: we can specify it in CSS, but if there's no way to actually query it<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: without that we'd have to make things up, or bundle fonts<br> <TabAtkins> addison: can bundle config and the fonts<br> <TabAtkins> addison: to step back, the reason we're adding generics is to get us out of the trap of jamming local styles into the four buckets we had<br> <TabAtkins> addison: allowing to refer to things the way they would naturally<br> <TabAtkins> addison: so when we talk to people with a typographic system they tell us what their generic names are<br> <TabAtkins> addison: I think that's valuable; we're gonna continue to face this<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: we're over time, I think we should resolve to add this, or punt it back to the issue<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: proposed resolution is to add the new generic, any objections?<br> <fantasai> +1 to emilio's concerns<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: no objections, but we should file tickets to OS vendors/freetype/etc if we really expect this to get momentum<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: there are also several more new generics, right?<br> <TabAtkins> florian: not too many, but yes<br> <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-4/#generic-font-families<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: right, would be great to not add to a pile of things we also can't implement<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: clarification, is this going in fonts 4 or 5?<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: are there generic things in 4?<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: some<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think 4 should be wrapping up<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: yeah, agree with 5<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: so maybe kick the whole generic system to 5<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: is it enough to resolve to add it to 5?<br> <Bert> (B.t.w., some of the old generic families are somewhat encoded in the fonts themselves, in the form of Panose. Not sure if the data is reliable.)<br> <TabAtkins> florian: we can pull it back later if needed<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: the general structure about generic() and fang-song and nastaliq is in 4<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: are there impls?<br> <TabAtkins> ChrisL: don't know, we don't have tests<br> <TabAtkins> florian: add it to a level, at the editor's discretion<br> <TabAtkins> astearns: so let's resolve to add to 4, alongside the existing ones. if it needs to move later, it can<br> <xfq> there are some tests in https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/587<br> <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: add the new keyword to Fonts 4<br> </details> -- GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/10036#issuecomment-2372657894 using your GitHub account -- Sent via github-notify-ml as configured in https://github.com/w3c/github-notify-ml-config
Received on Wednesday, 25 September 2024 01:05:08 UTC