Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-text-4] text-autospace: what gets copied? (#8511)

The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-text-4] text-autospace: what gets copied?`.

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;noamr> florian: text-autospace, in cjk at the limit between cjk and other, e.g. numeric, it adds spacing because it's typographically expected<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: the property has a syntax variant that it's not inserting but rather replacing the spacing, because sometimes that there is an explicit space<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: similar, outside of cjk, this is used to insert spaces in french before some punctuations. In some cases there is a narrow space, and CSS does it for people because people don't do it<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: what do we do with copy-paste in this mode? At least in the CJK context we ignore and copy the source<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: there are individual opinions that we should do the same for french<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: we were wondering whether this should be different for french, it's more an abuse/correction than styling<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: the i18n recommendation was to just copy the source<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: I was wondering about french, perhaps we should copy the original one<br>
&lt;noamr> q+<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: I would expect it to be copied correctly as a user, definitely for cjk we shouldn't copy<br>
&lt;noamr> s/florian/fantasai<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: there wasn't a conclusion in the group about what to do when we use replacement<br>
&lt;astearns> ack noamr<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/conclusion/obvious agreement/<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: for CJK we shouldn't copy, but for french, narrow spaces etc, a lot of other contexts wouldn't fix it, e.g. word wouldn't correct pasted stuff<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/CJK/CJK autospace insertion/<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: for having the spaces manually inputted into the text, it might be intentional, but if you're copy/pasting into an email, it's nicer if there was a space there<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: I find the i18n resolution plausible, still on the fence for french. then again it's a bit of a hack<br>
&lt;noamr> astearns: do we know what browsers do?<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: I suspect they use the underlying text<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: let's close and using underlying text, but come back to it if users complain<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: users can copy stuff that has a space, sometimes they'll get one and sometimes not<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: it's probably better to do the fixup in terms of users, but perhaps we can wait<br>
&lt;noamr> astearns: inclined to resolve on specifying we should copy the underlying text, perhaps with a note that this can change with user feedback<br>
&lt;noamr> fantasai: we can be open to changing it if there's user demand for it<br>
&lt;noamr> Jonathan: it's similar to copying text decorations. there are always going to be people unhappy with the decision<br>
&lt;noamr> ... I think this is up to presentation tools<br>
&lt;noamr> ... we shouldn't mangle the actual data<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> noamr: isn't htis a bit up to the browser? if the browser wants multiple copy functions in the context menu<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> noamr: is is the standard's job?<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: there's often different format, sure - plain text, or html with formatting, etc<br>
&lt;jfkthame> s/copying text decorations/copying text with text-transform/<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: we're just talking about plain text copy<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: we do say that we collapse white space for a plain text copy, for example. if you didn't do that, the text would be a big mess if there's indentation<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> noamr: we copy capitalization, don't we?<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: this is contentious, but no<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: text-transform is a bit different because it's not correcting the text, it's providing a style. we're clear in the spec that it's a contextual style<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: that's why you don't copy it<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: the cases we're considering doing the transform are where the literal text isn't actually represetntative of the char string the author wants<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: not just for presentation purposes<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: if you're typing regular space instead of nbthinspace, you're doing it because nb thin space is hard to type<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> noamr: okay so it's more of an error correction<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: the injection to CJK is styling. the removal and replacement in french is error correction<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: yeah, at laest part of it. the injectin of spacing in cjk contexts is styling. the removal/change of what's there (in french) is correction<br>
&lt;noamr> dbaron: a copy operation in many OSes already does multiple things at once<br>
&lt;noamr> florian: we're only defining plain text here<br>
&lt;noamr> PROPOSED REOSLUTION: plain text copy must ignore text replaced autospace. open to other feedback<br>
</details>


-- 
GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot
Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8511#issuecomment-2447811543 using your GitHub account


-- 
Sent via github-notify-ml as configured in https://github.com/w3c/github-notify-ml-config

Received on Wednesday, 30 October 2024 16:58:45 UTC