Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-overflow-5] Scroll button pseudo-elements (#10722)

The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-overflow-5] Scroll button pseudo-elements`.

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;bramus> flackr: other major UI component frequent in carousels is having butotns that scroll you through the content<br>
&lt;bramus> … also in scrollers in general sometimes<br>
&lt;bramus> …next/prev page, scroll up/down, …<br>
&lt;bramus> … proposal is to allow devs to create these with a pseudo-element<br>
&lt;bramus> … few options for what that might look lik<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> Big +1 on this, with the only caveat being that we super need this ability captured in a property *as well* which we can put on normal elements (with some suitable restrictions for a11y/usability)<br>
&lt;bramus> … and many open questions<br>
&lt;bramus> … e.g. focus order<br>
&lt;bramus> … seen examples of many different way of setting up these buttons<br>
&lt;florian> q+<br>
&lt;bramus> … want to get some attention on this to figure out if we would be happy to pursue this<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> q+<br>
&lt;SebastianZ> q+<br>
&lt;bramus> … and also some thoughts on specific questions<br>
&lt;astearns> ack florian<br>
&lt;astearns> q+<br>
&lt;bramus> florian: feedback on general idea: on the one hand yes, ppl do add these buttons<br>
&lt;bramus> … proposal goes much broader<br>
&lt;bramus> … for scroll buttons, reminds me of sth that I wanted to do when overlay scrollbars were new<br>
&lt;bramus> … because those scrollbars hide themselves, I wanted to add styles on the element so that users could se ethat it was scrollable<br>
&lt;bramus> … gave up beacuse I was fightnig the UI<br>
&lt;bramus> … similarly the trend is no longer to have scroll up/down buttons … these are useful and users can bring them back (OS setting) or is this a feature devs should bring back?<br>
&lt;bramus> … feel that is is unforutnate tha twe are fighthing back thorugh author space on featuers that UAs have removed<br>
&lt;bramus> flackr:  in most cases where authors these, they look nothing like the thing the UA provides<br>
&lt;bramus> … main use case is to recreate native scrollbars<br>
&lt;florian> s/UAs have removed/UAs have removed, then again it is useful<br>
&lt;bramus> … probably are cases that do that, but mostly site specific things<br>
&lt;bramus> florian: fact that they look different is not necessarily diagnostic<br>
&lt;bramus> … I wouldnt have done that if browser kept original UI<br>
&lt;bramus> q+<br>
&lt;astearns> ack TabAtkins<br>
&lt;bramus> TabAtkins: like it, dropped syntax nit suggestion in the issue<br>
&lt;bramus> … the ability to trigger scrolls in whatever direction should be dropped onto a property so that we can put these on real elements too<br>
&lt;bramus> … having pseudos makes sense too<br>
&lt;florian> s/I wouldnt have done that if browser kept original UI/what I used to do back in the day also looked very different from the removed browser UI, I wouldnt have done that if browser kept original UI<br>
&lt;bramus> … figuring out restrictions is a little bit more complicated on those elements, so having only pseudos is fine too<br>
&lt;bramus> flackr: can do this with invokeaction on buttons<br>
&lt;bramus> TabAtkins: sounds reasonable<br>
&lt;astearns> ack SebastianZ<br>
&lt;bramus> SebastianZ: also am reminded of the popover approach<br>
&lt;bramus> … fits more to HTML so that we could introduce HTML attrs that would trigger scroll and then those elements could be style in any way<br>
&lt;bramus> astearns: want to address q3: absolutely<br>
&lt;bramus> … should design so authors can use scroll-start and scroll-end<br>
&lt;astearns> ack astearns<br>
&lt;astearns> ack bramus<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> bramus: Addressing lforian's remark<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> bramus: where he wanted to recreate classic scrollobars, think that's part of another discussion we already have an issue for<br>
&lt;florian> q+<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> bramus: where authors want control over overlay vs classic scrollbars<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> bramus: so maybe something to discuss in that issue<br>
&lt;argyle> hehe, looks like scroll buttons https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/08ng5J3C/CSSWG%20zoom%20screenshot<br>
&lt;astearns> ack florian<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: I wasn't so much pointing out that authors want to recreate classic scrollbars, but rather react to scrollbars being less useful as time goes by<br>
&lt;bramus> fantasai: i understand the desire to create these buttons using css<br>
&lt;bramus> … proposal is probably way too ??<br>
&lt;astearns> s/??/simplistic/<br>
&lt;bramus> … how much are you going to scroll by? fragment? page? part of page? section? next scroll marker?<br>
&lt;bramus> … lot of different amounts<br>
&lt;bramus> … q about relation to each other and what order to they appear compared to other pseudos?<br>
&lt;bramus> … lot of option questions<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> It's more than two, fwiw<br>
&lt;bramus> … proposal for 2 pseudos with page-up/down is a bit too simple to addres sproblem space<br>
&lt;bramus> … dont have a good ?? do we want to make this more complicated now or? – dont know what makes sens here<br>
&lt;bramus> … but see a lot of variation of what users want to do and think we need to capture those needs<br>
&lt;joshtumath> s/??/solution<br>
&lt;bramus> flackr: did mention everything you mentioned as a list of open questions<br>
&lt;bramus> … definitely undespecified at this moment<br>
&lt;bramus> … q is not to resolve, but for me to go formulate anwsers to all those questions and then take it back<br>
&lt;bramus> astearns: I suggest yes: work on the questions and need to figure out the details<br>
&lt;bramus> florian: do think it is worth exploring this<br>
&lt;bramus> … also UAs, make scrollbars useful please<br>
&lt;bramus> astearns: we not only need the questions<br>
&lt;bramus> … we need the group of usecases that we are trying to solve<br>
&lt;bramus> … maybe a group of usecases that is out of scope<br>
&lt;florian> s/it is worth exploring this/it is worth exploring this, authors will do this anyway, and it'll be more robust if we provide features in that space that help<br>
&lt;bramus> … discussing things in terms of what the author wants to do<br>
&lt;bramus> flackr: excellent feedback<br>
&lt;bramus> astearns: so we take this back?<br>
</details>


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Received on Wednesday, 28 August 2024 16:55:52 UTC