Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-text-4] Propose 'text-spacing: space-first' (trim-start-except-first-line) as a normal behavior (#2462)

The CSS Working Group just discussed `[css-text-4] Propose 'text-spacing: space-first' (trim-start-except-first-line) as a normal behavior`, and agreed to the following:

* `RESOLVED: Accept the proposal in the issue (initial value is space-first, and hanging-punctuation hangs ideographic space)`

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: With recognition that the property *overall* is too complex (that's another issue) we still have the initial-value bheavior issue<br>
&lt;fantasai> "text-spacing is too complicated" issue is https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4246<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: there's a tension between what is good typography in CJ, and what's compatible with historical beahvior<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: There's a q about which of trim-start, space-start, or space-first should be the deafult value<br>
&lt;Rossen_> q?<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: the short answer is, after discussion, we think space-first is a good compromise. Acceptable typography in most cases, and compatible with most markup. Also encourages good markup practices.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: depending on how many people are interested and haven't read the GH issue I can give more details as to why, but the proposal is to say that space-first is the initial behavior<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: And part of that, change hanging-punctuation prop so that its "first" value also hangs paragraph-initial ideographic space<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: Kneejerk is sounds like a good first step, but mostly concerned about compat<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: And we won't solve compat by thinking hard. Starting with this and seeing what's wrong sounds useful.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: Agree, I'm not sue about compat but think it has a reasoanble chance, so we should try<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: also, our native platforms have our own text-spacing beahvior that's not described entirely by any of the CSS props<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: And we're interested in investigating if we can make "auto" default, reflecting that behavior<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: So if it turns out that's compatible we'll come back and ask for that. Won't propose it yet, so okay with starting from florian's proposal.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: We had discussed allowing text-spacing to tkae effect by default<br>
&lt;Rossen_> ack fantasai<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: Right now we ahve a resolution that "normal" is initial, and it corresponds to the trim values more or less *except* space-first, bc we believe there will be some unfortunate compat impacts from trimming first line<br>
&lt;florian> q+<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: If WK wants to turn it on by default, it brings the question of if we want default spacing to be set by the platform, or be consistent and interoperable.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> fantasai: We do have a keyword taht means "do what the platform wants" but the initial value is a separate q<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: Yeah, I see a parallel between this and the override descriptors in @font-face<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: By default the ascent/descent of all text is set by the platform, but if they really want it they can override those with specific values<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: I think this is similar<br>
&lt;Rossen_> ack florian<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> myles: But again I'm not proposing "auto" as the initial yet. I'll need to do investigation<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: Thanks for the heads up. Don't think that affects this current proposal.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: I think you might find that backwards compat is okay, but I'm concerned about forward compat with other platforms being forced to agree with it, but that's a future issue.<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> florian: So circling back, can we accept this proposal?<br>
&lt;fantasai> +1<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> Rossen_: Objections?<br>
&lt;TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Accept the proposal in the issue (initial value is space-first, and hanging-punctuation hangs ideographic space)<br>
&lt;fantasai> Also +1 to concerns around making 'auto' the initial value. I don't think this is a good idea<br>
</details>


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Received on Thursday, 2 February 2023 00:16:10 UTC