- From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 01:04:30 +0000
- To: public-css-archive@w3.org
The CSS Working Group just discussed `'gap' on tables`, and agreed to the following: * `RESOLVED: Define 'gap' working on Table layout, precise details tbd` * `RESOLVED: Put the 'gap' effects in Tables 3` <details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary> <TabAtkins> Topic: 'gap' on tables<br> <TabAtkins> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4848<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: First goal is to figur eout if we can actually apply new featues to tables, especially applying common layout features other display modes have now<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: gap is easiest<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: border-sapcing is very similar, but it's super unfortunate, because it inherits<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Setting border-spacing on a table also changes the spacing of nested tables.<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Seems like there's no good reason, just historical.<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: 'gap' doesn't have this problem, and is supported for Grid and Flexbox.<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: So, can we specify 'gap' for Table?<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Is there implementor interest?<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: For authors, it's easy; there's likely not compat issues since 'gap' is fairly recent.<br> <emilio> q+<br> <hober> q+<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: So is this something people are confident we might want to do?<br> <Rossen_> ack emilio<br> <hober> q-<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: Seems reasonable, tho it needs definition of interaction with border-spacing<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: There's a proposal for that<br> <TabAtkins> emilio: Does 'gap' support anything border-spacing doesn't?<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: One, but it's very manageable<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: gap allows %<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Imo, we can quickly decide that % on tables in gap only works for definite-sized axis, otherwise is 0. Similar to %s in many other table contexts.<br> <TabAtkins> Rossen_: metapoint is that these details have been worked out in the proposal<br> <fantasai> honestly, even if we resolve it to zero unconditionally, that would probably be fine and still useful<br> <TabAtkins> florian: Is this driven by theory or use-case?<br> <TabAtkins> florian: If you'e using tables for data, in my experience, data tables don't use border-spacing all that much.<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: I didn't open the issue, Sebastian did but isn't here to defend the point.<br> <iank_> q+<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: imo, border-spacing is terrible design, and gap works everywhere and is cheap to do, so get a cheap consistency<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: But this is more theoretical for me, yeah.<br> <miriam> q+<br> <Rossen_> ack iank_<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: As long as this is a drop-in replacement for border-spacing, this is okay.<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: 'gap' today only works on a single flexbox or grid; border-spacing is more complex because it punches thru and affects things in the rows, the sections, the table itself. Lots of plumbing.<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: As long as it's specified to basically directly override border-spacing<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Yes. Initial value of 'gap' is normal; we define that it defers to border-spacing.<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: Right, so next is defining that %s don't resolve to something strange and don't re-resolve.<br> <Rossen_> ack miriam<br> <TabAtkins> miriam: To respond to Florian, I don't see peole using border-sapcing a lot, I see people using padding a lot<br> <TabAtkins> miriam: My expectation is because border-spacing is a weird name that I forget about regularly.<br> <TabAtkins> miriam: 'gap' I wouldn't forget about.<br> <iank_> q+<br> <TabAtkins> miriam: I'd use it anywhere I'd use padding<br> <emeyer> It makes sense to me that ‘gap’ would apply to tables, but mostly for completeness’ sake and author convenience. And agree with miram about the use of inline padding.<br> <Rossen_> ack fantasai<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: Another thing is that it's between the borders of the cells. Any time I use a data table, I'm using collapsed borders, so there is no space.<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: So there I'd have to use padding bc both border-spacing *and* gap wouldn't do anything.<br> <Rossen_> ack iank_<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: Right, last point was we can't make 'gap' magically work in collapsed borders.<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: I was also going to mention collapsed borders.<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: Also think it's worth being extra caqreful about %s.<br> <Rossen_> ack dbaron<br> <Rossen_> ack fantasai<br> <TabAtkins> dbaron: Don't remember what 'gap' supports in %s, but with border-spacing we're in a position where the Tables model makes it very difficult to support %s in a good way, but any lesser way would be inconsistent with using 'gap' elsewhere.<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: My suggestion would be to make %s resolve only when table-layout is fixed; for table-layout:auto they resolve to 0 unconditionally<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: I agree on the auto case, i'll have to think on fixed. It's not as special if you think it is<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Idea is if the table width is definite...<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: That's not what was discussed<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Right, that's my idea tho<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: I agree that's easier than basing it on table-layout fixed<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: I'm fine iwth it rsolving to 0 *all* the time<br> <TabAtkins> iank_: Me too<br> <TabAtkins> Rossen_: We're over time. Seems there's some interest, but we're lacking motivation.<br> <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Leave it to the WG to decide. Call for consensus?<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: I'd be happy to spec it, think it makes sense, but it's a low prio.<br> <emilio> +1 to fantasai<br> <florian> +1 to fantasai<br> <TabAtkins> Rossen_: So is this something we want to adopt? Objections?<br> <emeyer> +1 to fantasai<br> <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Define 'gap' working on Table layout, precise details tbd<br> <TabAtkins> fremy: Can we put this in Tables 3?<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah it's small<br> <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Put the 'gap' effects in Tables 3<br> <TabAtkins> fantasai: mark it at-risk<br> </details> -- GitHub Notification of comment by css-meeting-bot Please view or discuss this issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4848#issuecomment-1248800947 using your GitHub account -- Sent via github-notify-ml as configured in https://github.com/w3c/github-notify-ml-config
Received on Friday, 16 September 2022 01:04:32 UTC