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Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-scrollbars][css-scrollbars-1] Should we also add scrollbar width control? (#1958)

From: franckyK via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:47:15 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-446737882-1544647634-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Apart form the technical stuff (I don't know if there might be complications for "`writing-mode:vertical`"), here some more pricipal notes from a user POV.

- What I like of visible (vertical) scrollbars is that you can see (by the height of the scrollbar) how many screenheights a page or element will be. When developers get the freedom of "scrollbar-width: none" ("not display any scrollbar, however the element’s scrollability is not affected", the WD says), as a user I'm losing control about my browser behaviour.
- If an element has a white space just in between two sub-elements, it is not obvious that there will be more if scrolled - and visitors can miss important information (f.i. an "order now" button under the water line, or things with juridical consequences). Adding several internal "Read more" links to overcome this will not create the most elegant websites.
- I can imagine that for touch-screens maybe a disappeared scrollbar is an option, but anyway it is not very user friendly if there is no mandatory rule as "if the scrollbar-width is set to none, a user agent MUST give an indication that the element is scrollable" (f.i. with an icon or something). 
- Then the scrollbar-width. As a desktop-fan I'm used to mouse to handle a scrollbar, and when a scrollbar is "thin" the user-friendlyness or even accessibility is in danger. There should be at least a prescribed minimum for the scrollbar-width, I think.
- Not unimportant: there is a firm uncertainty about the scrollbar behaviour by (different!) user agents: "This specification does not define the exact position or shape of the scrollbar, or any animation thereof, such as fading or sliding in/out of view." Growing and lawless diversity instead of standards is a threat for the common and disabled user...

Considering all this (and with the still often misused "`outline:none`" in mind), it shouldn't amaze me if shortly after reality of this WD there would emerge browser add-ons as "ShowMyScrollbarAlways", in case good browsers don't include that as a setting in the browser options itself. But better should be the opposite: always show scrollbars, unless "hide" is permitted by the user (opt-in instead of opt-out). Then the user remains the king!

At last a question: is the WD going round in the WAI circles, and what do they think?

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Received on Wednesday, 12 December 2018 20:47:16 UTC

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