Re: subject of credibility statement, was Re: CredWeb this week

A quick note after today's call. I added this note to the PNB document,
Sandro.

~~~
There is a challenge with the word "benefit". In applied ethics we will ask
"benefit for whom?" Depending on the paradigm/frame you get different
answers.

If it an individualist frame - net benefit is for me the person.

But not all actions are individual for net personal benefit. Sometimes we
are called to act or decide using some information, for collective benefit,
or the benefit of everyone. At least some of the actions or non-actions
fall into this latter "collectivist" "public" "group" behavior realm and
not the individual realm.

Many actions we are called upon to do as members of a community are both.
Net personal benefit and collective benefit may be interconnected long term
and short term. (E.g. wearing masks when going out). Whatever it is, when
the collectivist frame enters, things get complicated
(psychology-neuroscience, values, etc.).

My argument is that we clearly delineate the benefits cases, the action
cases, etc., even for the COVID19 scenario.
...

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 10:45 AM Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org> wrote:

> On 4/8/20 11:27 AM, Greg Mcverry wrote:
>
> "I consider the credibility of [  ] " are we using a persons name, their
> social media profile, or a canonical link (campaign or .gov site)>? all of
> the above
>
>
> Working hypothesis / straw proposal is we're using a URL where statements
> appear, and we're talking about the credibility of that page and those
> statements, more than about the person or organization behind the page.
>
> We'd been moving in that direction with signals in recent months, and then
> I went fully into that perspective here
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1ShiK-5FPkd46foPbWCayfkUh3UV5Bhd5KHI5SKYoUIkiI_edit&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=ksQIsq5xQuY8-5hWFGYZcnrcuUO1hzDG0qdSo6Gk00Y&e=>
> and so far it seems to be feeling okay.
>
> Obviously some reasoning will need to be brought it at some point tying
> together multiple URLs that are managed by the same people, or something,
> when that can be determined.
>
>     -- Sandro
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 10:57 AM Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sandro et. al.  I need to be an apology, my calls tonight. ended just now
>> around 0100 and I am already so darn weary, I can hardly keep my eyes open
>> so going to get some sleep (I doubt I will wake for the 0400 call but if I
>> do well then obviously I will dial in
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 04:33 Daniel Schwabe <dschwabe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sandro,
>>> I’m sorry for being late with this info, I meant to send it earlier. The
>>> models we discussed are similar to Jenny Golbecks work @Mariland under J.
>>> Hendler, but not seen as “probabilities”. Take a look at
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225070332_Trust_Networks_on_the_Semantic_Web
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_225070332-5FTrust-5FNetworks-5Fon-5Fthe-5FSemantic-5FWeb&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=7Ja2fKQIOqYjdRpVrjHPvAErutrhOuJpwDgjHyoqc-w&e=>
>>> .
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> D
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 Apr 2020, at 14:28, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Meeting this week, usual time, 8 April 2020 2pm ET
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.timeanddate.com_worldclock_fixedtime.html-3Fmsg-3DCredWeb-26iso-3D20200408T14-26p1-3D43-26ah-3D1&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=mXb_dulvC17ERHHF37-XXbfGJl-hoY-RIaT5UznYylo&e=> usual
>>> place https://zoom.us/j/706868147
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__zoom.us_j_706868147&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=83JpE5-PNEENW9VKJAHnO8Vp91zu4lLIOWmVzdP0Cbo&e=>
>>> .
>>>
>>> Last week, we had a lively discussion of my straw proposal for a
>>> credibility network to help people figure out who they should trust. Coming
>>> out of that, I wanted to try running the network viewer
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__credweb.org_viewer_&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=8pJOzKaw_4Yk9HeUPM0wFOFvsOOxlqL74ENj6KSZwkY&e=>
>>> on people's real credibility statements (so far we have some from me,
>>> Symeon, Subbu, and Annette), but I wasn't able to get to that this week,
>>> alas.
>>>
>>> I did write up The “Probability of Net Benefit” PNB Credibility Score
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_18tPpaQnxuGbgG7sOWEfPYWiA9D4vNMfxXR1SJRIvAoI_edit-23&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=q6cdaAb2B0AU1ZWOUngsJxp_XUEbLPhUS5s6ofsf-hg&e=>,
>>> in the hope of making that part of the discussion more concrete. I'd love
>>> to see other proposals for how we can combine or reason about credibility
>>> data, since this one has some clear flaws.
>>>
>>> One interesting focus this week might be Paul Graham's new micro-essay, Coronavirus
>>> and Credibility
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__paulgraham.com_cred.html&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=d5jbojTD0E0uMVwf6omkvk2YwmCYqR5WKGnReHL9KPM&e=>,
>>> where he argues the public failures of people around Covid-19 ought to
>>> negatively impact their credibility.
>>>
>>> As I tweeted
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_sandhawke_status_1247183232241672195&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=IxQ-20Rg2IiO3uf3sKuwxhh5EPpe4rpwNs2XBKBGRcQ&e=>
>>> back to him: "Indeed. But humans aren't very good at remembering these
>>> details, and we don't currently have good systems for collaborating on
>>> this. Open solution in the works at @W3C
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_w3c&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=i61MqtHiZK_0Y4pcwkTQdiD52HmVRxcI9JJDOP1QWus&e=>
>>> http://credweb.org
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__t.co_Sott21IZaX-3Famp-3D1&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=_WGItiScG-yBn1qKXHxAfAkqgKO2jsc9aavp8SXDC9o&e=>.
>>> Hoping to release demo in a matter of days."
>>>
>>> We could perhaps do that with credibility statements like:
>>>
>>>    - I consider the credibility of [  ] to be (increased | decreased)
>>>    by [  ]
>>>    - I consider the credibility of [  ] on the topic of covid-19 to be
>>>    (increased | decreased) by [  ]
>>>    - I consider [  ] to be not credible on the topic of covid-19 due to
>>>    [  ] as seen at URL [  ]
>>>    - ...
>>>
>>> If you could spend a few minutes trying to make statements like that, to
>>> see what feels right, and make them available (like this
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1ShiK-5FPkd46foPbWCayfkUh3UV5Bhd5KHI5SKYoUIkiI_edit&d=DwMDaQ&c=iVyFbx9TtkoGWXYs40w9MA&r=wyi5IBqa49qarh0Bhonvcw&m=jODCsynGE6dy6JL1-PguIamNJh8KdckD_SK9pSG5anA&s=ksQIsq5xQuY8-5hWFGYZcnrcuUO1hzDG0qdSo6Gk00Y&e=>,
>>> same as last week, or just in email to the list), it will help inform a
>>> discussion tomorrow, and I will redouble my efforts to make a viewer for
>>> them.
>>>
>>>     -- Sandro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
> Assistant Professor
> Southern Connecticut State University
> twitter: jgmac1106
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subramaniam (Subbu) Vincent
Director, Journalism and Media Ethics,
Markkula Center for Applied Ethics, Santa Clara University
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