- From: Tobie Langel <tobie@fb.com>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:15:50 +0000
- To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>, Robin Berjon <robin@berjon.com>
- CC: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>, "public-coremob@w3.org" <public-coremob@w3.org>
On 6/11/12 4:03 PM, "Glenn Adams" <glenn@skynav.com> wrote: >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:38 AM, Robin Berjon <robin@berjon.com> wrote: > >On Jun 11, 2012, at 10:39 , James Graham wrote: >> The best solution for bugginess is to have high quality public >>testsuites for various features. The various W3C working groups already >>curate tests for their various specs and have guidelines / frameworks >>for writing tests. The main problem is sourcing the tests themselves; so >>far the dominant contributors by far are browser vendors, and even they >>do not yet contribute as much as you might hope due to a history of >>writing tests in ways that that are specific to their particular browser >>or testing setup. This has been improving recently, however. > > >That's certainly part of the problem, but not the whole story either. For >most of the issues that Robert brings up the features are actually >supported and would be reported as such in traditional conformance test >suites. The fact that they're there but simply unusable for developers >would not be noted in the implementation report. > > >I brought this up at the recent WebApps F2F, namely, that the traditional >purpose for test suites in the W3C has been to demonstrate >implementability of a spec, i.e., as a tool to help persuade the director >that a spec can move from CR to PR. Other purposes for testing, e.g., >interoperability and quality, have not been an explicit goal in the W3C >test process, at least not the way it has been practiced in general. >Certainly, some groups and some specs have had test suites created with >this in mind, but the W3C process does not (presently) encode this as a >goal in test creation or use. > >In addition, because the W3C does not perform any type of compliance >testing (and it is unlikely to do so any time soon if ever), these other >goals are typically given low priority or dropped entirely. > >I would suggest that we need to find ways to encode the goals of >interoperability and quality (of the technical products, not the process >itself) in the W3C Process in a manner that translates to specific >actions in the way W3C test suites are developed and used. Ties back another thing I brought up on the WebApps mailing list recently: documented use cases and requirements. Quality of implementation tests should assert the implementations fulfill the use cases a spec was designed to meet. Effectively, this would close the circle and seed a more iterative kind of development: use case -> requirements -> spec -> implementation -> confirm implementation is spec compliant -> confirm implementation meets use cases and requirements -> gather unmet or new use cases. Repeat. --tobie
Received on Tuesday, 12 June 2012 09:33:53 UTC