Re: changes for help

I like John's idea to use "programmatically associated," or
"programmatically available."


Jan McSorley
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On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:41 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:

> Hi LIsa,
>
> I agree, those are all potential "techniques"
>
> However, my larger question / suggestion is to be more explicit in the
> Success Criteria language by saying that the support is programmatically
> associated (i.e. directly linked somehow in the source code), as opposed to
> simply "provided" (which I continue to find ambiguous).
>
> This is because it could then be argued that an additional "glossary" page
> that "translates / transforms" those values, buried deep inside of a
> website, would none-the-less meet the Criteria - it's provided, just not on
> the same page as the term(s) in question (which I will presume is an
> important part of the deliverable, correct?)
>
> Just trying to further tighten up the language.
>
> JF
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:28 PM, lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com> wrote:
>
>> I think this should be a technique. Is that acceptable?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa Seeman
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- On Mon, 05 Jun 2017 19:21:49 +0300 *John
>> Foliot<john.foliot@deque.com <john.foliot@deque.com>>* wrote ----
>>
>> Greetings Coga!
>>
>> This is looking significantly better - kudos.
>>
>> I have a question however. Bullet #1 states:
>>
>>
>> For numerical content: Charts, tables, graphics *or non-numerical text*
>> content are available that summarize numerical information;
>>
>>
>> ​...and specifically the "non-numerical text" requirement. As I read
>> this, I am left with the impression​ that you want something like this:
>>
>> <p>This week's lottery jackpot is $3,250,000 (three million, two-hundred
>> and fifty thousand dollars). </p>
>>
>> ​Is that correct?​ I'm a little concerned about how developers will
>> interpret and apply this: I think we need to draw the line at NOT mandating
>> that the text always be "in the clear" as my example shows (although I'm
>> all for suggesting that as a Best Practice.)
>>
>> More to the point, would a "programmatically associated" alternative be
>> sufficient?
>>
>> I.e. would the following meet your requirements/needs?
>>
>> <p>This week's lottery jackpot is <span title="three million,
>> two-hundred and fifty thousand dollars">$3,250,000</span>. </p>
>>
>>
>> ​If yes, then is there a way we could include that language as well?​
>> Perhaps something like:
>>
>> Comprehension support is
>> ​
>> available
>> ​
>>  ​ *programmatically associated*​
>> ​
>> via one
>> ​​
>> or more of the following:
>>
>> ​To my thinking this achieves the following:
>>
>>    - No mandated impact on visual designs
>>    - No mandated impact on on-screen editorial content
>>    - Supports both coga-semantics solution as well as other solutions
>>    (We might also consider aria-label and aria-labelled by as possible
>>    solutions, but user-agents or plugins would need to play along)​
>>    - This would also facilitate the requirement for relative and
>>    cardinal directions (similar techniques)
>>
>> ​Thoughts?
>>
>> JF​
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:18 AM, lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> In response to the comments to the help success criteria  (
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/32) we have come out with the
>> following changed wording. Please compare to the original (see bellow) and
>> see if you are OK with the changes....
>>
>> *new wording:*
>>
>>
>> Comprehension support is available via one or more of the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>    - *For numerical content:* Charts, tables, graphics or non-numerical
>>    text content are available that summarize numerical information;
>>    - *For forms:*  non-standard controls have instructions, and
>>     multi-step forms provide information about a user's position in the form.
>>    -  *Long  blocks of text: * are divide  with heading, keywords are
>>    visually emphasized or a summary is provided
>>    - *For directions:* Alternative terms are available for  relative and
>>    cardinal directions.
>>
>> There are exceptions where:
>>
>>    - the content will be penalized for not conforming to a given style
>>    (such as a dissertation or a Ph.D. proposal);
>>    - a different structure is an essential part of the main function of
>>    the site (for example, a game or a reading test);
>>    - if the style is an essential part of the main function of the site,
>>    such as a literary work;
>>    -  for numerical information where the target audience is in a
>>    profession that requires a knowledge of maths.
>>
>>
>>
>>  definitions:
>>
>> - Keywords: Author defined terms that identify the purpose of the
>> passage. (Note the understand section will describe this process of
>> identifying keyword)
>>
>> - Non-Standard controls: Scripted  interactive elements which do not
>> behave like a named control in the host language.
>>
>> - Long blocks of content are sections of text that are not divided  by a
>> header, list, or named region and are 300 words or more (or xx characters
>> in Chinese and Japanese) .
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> To help you compare here is the *old version:*
>>
>> Comprehension support is available via:
>>
>>
>>    - Charts, tables, or graphics to summarize complex numerical
>>    information;
>>    - Summaries of long documents;
>>    - Emphasis of key words in long documents;
>>    - Instructions for non-standard controls;
>>    - Information about a user's position in multi-step forms;
>>    - Alternative terms for relative and cardinal directions;
>>    - Non-numerical versions of numerical values.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa Seeman
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Foliot
> Principal Accessibility Strategist
> Deque Systems Inc.
> john.foliot@deque.com
>
> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>