RE: Joshue O Connor suggestion

I also found the term feedback loop confusing. It means something else in Engineering.

I like this proposal. we can handle the spoken option by support of personlization

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn, Twitter





---- On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 00:06:39 +0300 Mary Jo Mueller<maryjom@us.ibm.com> wrote ---- 

I'm probably joining this conversation a bit late, but do have some thoughts on this topic and I understand the verbiage is often very difficult to nail down on these requirements. Don't take my comments as criticisms, as I'm playing devil's advocate for a bit. Dealt too much lately with folks that over-interpret things and try to require way too much to the point it gets over-burdensome and prescriptive to anyone trying to develop any kind of application. Now for my comments...

I am an engineer too, and though I understand what a feedback loop is, I don't think the term is widely understood and to me it doesn't quite fit as it isn't really a continuous loop that the user is looking for. They want to take an action, learn of an issue and correct it - one time, not loop back again and again which is more of what a feedback loop is about. So could the term "feedback" be used instead? 

Since this is an accessibility requirement being drafted, adding "accessible" seems a bit redundant. 

The suggestion that there be multiple ways of presenting that feedback is an important one, and maybe it can be simply stated as such using "multiple ways" or "multiple modalities", but not sure it really makes sense to have multiple ways/modalities for every single possible action in a UI. 

The multiple ways could be in some advisory techniques, unless we really want to require multiple ways.

And yet another question...should literally "every action" have feedback, and what kind of feedback? Clicking on a link is an action, the feedback is new content is loaded and viewable. Would you really need another modality of feedback for that? I'm just trying to think of possible scenarios where users of this guidance could misinterpret the requirement and take it much too far. How do you know you've really done it right and have a basis for saying you comply when someone else interprets it to mean you need multiple modalities of feedback on every single thing a user does in the UI?

So my suggested update would be: 
3.5.1 The success or failure of actions should be clearly indicated to the user with timely and understandable feedback. 
Best regards,Mary Jo
 
  
Mary Jo Mueller
Accessibility Standards Program Manager
IBM Accessibility, IBM Research, Austin, TX
Phone: 512-286-9698 | Tie-line: 363-9698 
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"Rochford, John" ---08/09/2016 06:40:03 AM---Hi Lisa and All, I agree with E.A.'s suggestion and with Mike's elaboration of it.

From: "Rochford, John" <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
To: public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Date: 08/09/2016 06:40 AM
Subject: RE: Joshue O Connor suggestion




Hi Lisa and All,
 
I agree with E.A.’s suggestion and with Mike’s elaboration of it.
 
John
 
John Rochford
UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center
Director, INDEX Program
Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health
www.DisabilityInfo.org
Twitter: @ClearHelper
 
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From: Michael Pluke [mailto:Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:42 AM
To: EA Draffan <ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Joshue O Connor suggestion
 
I fully agree. 
 
I think that, as an engineer, the “accessible feedback loop” gives a clear strong message about what is needed – and might be referred to from other success criteria. 
 
Existing WCAG Success Criteria and anything else that we feel needs adding can cover how the feedback in that loop can be presented – a default modality, an alternate modality, user-configurable multimodal feedback (e.g. visual and spoken, visual and haptic, no feedback, etc.).
 
The definition of “accessible feedback loop” will need to give an indication of the timeliness of the feedback.
 
Best regards
 
Mike 
 
From: EA Draffan [mailto:ead@ecs.soton.ac.uk] 
Sent: 09 August 2016 09:56
To: lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Joshue O Connor suggestion
 
I like it - if we add timely and useful do we have to quantify what we mean by 'timely' and 'useful'? Too much of a delay and they do not wait for the feedback and too complex - it does not help. It has to be clear but also useful so the user understands the feedback and can act on it. 
 
3.5.1 The success or failure of every action should be clearly indicated to the user with a timely and useful accessible feedback loop. 
 
Best wishes
E.A. 
 
Mrs E.A. Draffan
WAIS, ECS , University of Southampton
Mobile +44 (0)7976 289103
http://access.ecs.soton.ac.uk
UK AAATE rep http://www.aaate.net/ 
http://www.emptech.info
 
From: lisa.seeman [mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com] 
Sent: 08 August 2016 15:26
To: public-cognitive-a11y-tf <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: Joshue O Connor suggestion
 
Joshue O Connor suggested the following change. 

 3.5.1 The success or failure of every action should be clearly indicated to the user and visual rapid feedback should be available. Spoken feedback should be a user selectable option.Would be better as. 
3.5.1 The success or failure of every action should be clearly indicated to the user in an accessible feedback loop. 
The term 'accessible feedback loop' could be defined in the notes or understanding section? 
This would cover multi modal access etc for all disability types. 
I am not sure it is simpler -what does everyone else think
 
All the best
 
Lisa