Re: Open letter urging to pause AI

so, you fed PII data to chatgpt, proving your questionable ethics…

On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 03:15, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> so 1. 4. 2023 v 23:29 odesílatel Adeel <aahmad1811@gmail.com> napsal:
>
>> It is a constructive discussion on the general ethics - it is a core
>> competency in every professionalism. Not left to legal speculation whether
>> it be the use of transformer models, code of conduct, or selectively
>> defined for others, practice what you preach which is the real issue with
>> ethics these days.
>>
>
> Perhaps calm down a bit and stay on-topic
>
> As an interesting exercise I ran this tread through chatGPT asking: "rate
> this statement as whether or not it is passive agressive on a scale of 1 to
> 10 and why" -- give it a try if you want to see some interesting results
>
> What is came up with passive aggression:
>
> Hugh - 3
> Dan - 5
> Pat - 4
> Adeel - 5,7
> Nathan (control) - 2
>
> Perhaps if run again it would give different numbers.  I expect AI is
> going to be integrated into all sorts of tools, so that we'll get flags and
> pointers in email before sending.  Which will change the nature of mail
> lists forever!
>
> As a side note I chat to new developers about semantic web all the time.
> One recently said to me: "I hope stuff like this can popularize linked data
> without the smugness".
>
> This is actually one of the more pleasant, jolly threads.  But we probably
> can and will do better as a list, when it starts to be common place for AI
> tools to help us.
>
> It is a technology that huge implications for the semantic web.  Because
> the semantic web is about meaning.  There are times when technology moves
> too fast, and has societal implications, so imho, the question is legit.
> Indeed in the AI world this topic has been the big one in the last week,
> with dozens of different views.  It's interesting.  Emad has in any case
> said he thinks gpt v.next will take 6-9 months to train anyway.
>
> The main limitation I have found is that it can do small tasks reasonably
> well, but when you hit the 32k limit, it struggles just as much as we all
> do with larger topics or code bases.  Perhaps that will chain soon with
> plugins tho, we'll see!
>
>
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 22:12, Patrick J. Hayes <phayes@ihmc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Adeel, greetings.
>>>
>>> The code of conduct applies to us all, including of course Dan B. But
>>> the point here is that Dan has not violated that code, whereas you have,
>>> first by directly insulting Dan by implying that his posts are dishonest or
>>> motivated by dark or sinister commercial forces, and then by continuing
>>> this thread of thinly veiled hostility when there is no reason for it. I am
>>> not an administrator of this group, but if I were you would now be banned
>>> from it.
>>>
>>> Please find some more constructive way to contribute to the discussion.
>>>
>>> Pat Hayes
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Adeel <aahmad1811@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That sounds like a legal speculation, or do you only selectively
>>> discriminate on group members and their backgrounds when you point that out?
>>> Does the W3C code of conduct not apply to you after 25+ years of being
>>> here?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Adeel
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 23:33, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 20:59, Adeel <aahmad1811@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't talk about regulation and compliance in this group, dan
>>>>> doesn't like it as google doesn't care about those things.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rather, Google doesn’t delegate to me any permission to speak on its
>>>> behalf on these matters, unsurprisingly enough. Google is also and
>>>> organization of many thousand employees, with quite some range of views. I
>>>> choose not to share several of mine here right now, but I am broadly in
>>>> favour of sensible laws where they have some chance of working.
>>>>
>>>> As in many situations it sometimes makes sense to treat a company as a
>>>> kind of pretend person, and sometimes to look at it as a more complex
>>>> system of forces and interests. Skim
>>>>
>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/inside-google-three-years-misery-happiest-company-tech/
>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2Fstory%2Finside-google-three-years-misery-happiest-company-tech%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297688875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=akFFkIcIXEgvQWjOdtQO4QjZOzAjTOJ82zH1mJwAb%2Bo%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> to see some of what bubbles beneath the surface.
>>>>
>>>> This email list is just an email list. W3C no longer accords it
>>>> “interest group“ status, as it did from 1999 when I migrated the older
>>>> RDF-DEV list to W3C to form the RDF Interest Group on www-rdf-interest@
>>>> list. W3C doesn’t officially listen here even on RDF topics, let alone
>>>> areas like modern AI and their social impact which aren’t obviously our
>>>> core competency.
>>>>
>>>> Having been here 25+ years I have some instincts about which topics
>>>> will just fill up email inboxes with no ultimate impact on the world and
>>>> benefit. Right now “something must be banned” threads on AI look to me to
>>>> fall in that category.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adeel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 20:22, adasal <adam.saltiel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's out of the bottle and will be played with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " .. being run on consumer laptops. And that’s not even thinking
>>>>>> about state level actors .. "
>>>>>> Large resources will be thrown at this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was a long time ago that Henry Story (of course, many others too,
>>>>>> but more in this context) pointed out that, as to what pertains to the
>>>>>> truth, competing logical deductions cannot decide themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just had this experience, and the details are not important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is that, in this case, I asked the same question to GPT-4
>>>>>> and perplexity.ai
>>>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fperplexity.ai%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297688875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=twBLGhgQjubMJb6eq223Hsx8kKJMs8Tiq7jMBfpFyPc%3D&reserved=0>,
>>>>>> and they gave different answers.
>>>>>> Since it was something I wanted to know the answer to, and it was
>>>>>> sufficiently complex, I was not in a position to judge which was correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Petitioning for funding for experts, i.e. researchers and university
>>>>>> professors.
>>>>>> Although it is absurd to think they would have time to mediate
>>>>>> between all the obscure information sorting correct from incorrect and, of
>>>>>> course, a person can be wrong too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then there is the issue of attribution ...
>>>>>> At the moment, perplexity.ai
>>>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fperplexity.ai%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297688875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=twBLGhgQjubMJb6eq223Hsx8kKJMs8Tiq7jMBfpFyPc%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> has a word salad of dubious recent publications; GPT -4 has a "knowledge
>>>>>> cutoff for my training data is September 2021". It finds it difficult to
>>>>>> reason about time in any case, but these are details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Others in this email thread have cast doubt on Musk's motivation
>>>>>> (give it time to catch up) and Microsoft (didn't care for any consequences
>>>>>> by jumping in now).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So there are issues of funding and control -- calling on the state to
>>>>>> intervene is appealing to the power next up the hierarchy, but can such
>>>>>> regulations be effective when administered by the state?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That really just leaves us with grassroots education and everyday
>>>>>> intervention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best on an important topic,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam Saltiel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 9:39 PM Martin Hepp <mfhepp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could not agree more with Dan - a “non-proliferation” agreement
>>>>>>> nor a moratorium of AI advancements is simply much more unrealistic than it
>>>>>>> was with nukes. We hardly managed to keep the number of crazy people with
>>>>>>> access to nukes under control, but for building your next generation of AI,
>>>>>>> you will not need anything but brain, programming skills, and commodity
>>>>>>> resources. Machines will not take over humankind, but machines can add
>>>>>>> giant levers to single individuals or groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>> martin hepp
>>>>>>> www:  https://www.heppnetz.de/
>>>>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heppnetz.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297845108%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FCqp2o420lD%2FDJA%2BsW2xmUV1SL4eb4FqubE%2FFbQiwv0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 29. Mar 2023, at 22:30, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 at 20:51, ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program <
>>>>>>> metadataportals@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This letter speaks for itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-experts-urge-pause-training-ai-systems-that-can-outperform-gpt-4-2023-03-29/
>>>>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Ftechnology%2Fmusk-experts-urge-pause-training-ai-systems-that-can-outperform-gpt-4-2023-03-29%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297845108%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n%2BG6aomh5Ad6qwdk9euMYmYvQFLs0dSYFMpwJ%2FquyPo%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I may not want to put it as bluntly as Elon Musk, who cautioned
>>>>>>> against unregulated AI which he called "more dangerous than nukes", but
>>>>>>> when Nick Bostrom, the late Stephen Hawking, and dozens, no hundreds of
>>>>>>> international experts, scientists and industry leaders start ringing the
>>>>>>> bell, is is time to pause and reflect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every aspect of daily life, every industry, education systems,
>>>>>>> academia and even our cognitive rights will be impacted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would also like to point out that some science fiction authors
>>>>>>> have done a great job on very accurately predicting a dystopian future
>>>>>>> ruled by technology, perhaps the greatest of them all being Philip K. Dick.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there are dozens of other authors as well and they all give a
>>>>>>> fairly good impression what awaits us if we do not regulate and control the
>>>>>>> further development of AI now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a *lot* of worries, but the genie is out of the bottle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s 60 lines of code for the basics,
>>>>>>> https://jaykmody.com/blog/gpt-from-scratch/
>>>>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjaykmody.com%2Fblog%2Fgpt-from-scratch%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cphayes%40ihmc.us%7Cd884dfb499ef423f124f08db32ef753e%7C2b38115bebad4aba9ea3b3779d8f4f43%7C1%7C0%7C638159776297845108%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2QEWpct5NS36zpwh2zyEISddXRBZMJeJtvMcQSJ8HME%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Facebook’s Llama model is out there, and being run on consumer
>>>>>>> laptops. And that’s not even thinking about state level actors, or how such
>>>>>>> regulation might be worded.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For my part (and v personal opinion) I think focussing on education,
>>>>>>> sensible implementation guidelines, and trying to make sure the good
>>>>>>> outweighs the bad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Milton Ponson
>>>>>>> GSM: +297 747 8280
>>>>>>> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
>>>>>>> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
>>>>>>> Project Paradigm: Bringing the ICT tools for sustainable
>>>>>>> development to all stakeholders worldwide through collaborative research on
>>>>>>> applied mathematics, advanced modeling, software and standards development
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>