- From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 16:56:17 -0600
- To: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
- Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <OF5B917D88.9993C26F-ON86257C82.007D7168-86257C82.007E0057@us.ibm.com>
response between <rss> and </rss>
Rich Schwerdtfeger
From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro
<jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>,
"public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>,
Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
Date: 02/17/2014 01:12 PM
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
Hi Rik,
Sure I can elaborate.
When I author ARIA markup I am going to set the role on the element in
fallback content along with any ARIA states and properties I will have.
The spec. says that I, as author, MUST us a control in fallback content
(which I assume is an HTML5 control) or I am going to have to put a role
in the API call that sets up the hit region. Why should I have to put a
role in the API when I normally put it on an element in fallback content.
Example:
<div role="checkbox" aria-checked="true">
vs. the spec. telling me I have to do:
<div aria-checked="true"> and supplying the role through the API. This
makes no sense.
No, you don't have to do this. From the spec:
if any of the following conditions are met, throw a NotSupportedError
exception and abort these steps.
...
The arguments object's control and role members are both
non-null.
You are not allowed to specify a control and a role at the same time. The
role has to come from the control.
You do have to provide a HTML control:
<rss> What does it mean to apply a role but no corresponding element?
</rss>
if any of the following conditions are met, throw a NotSupportedError
exception and abort these steps.
...
The arguments object's control member is not null but is neither
an a element that represents a hyperlink, a button element, an
input element whosetype attribute is in one of the Checkbox or
Radio Button states, nor an input element that is a button.
Maybe that can be relaxed? (Why not text input for instance?)
<rss> I think this needs to be relaxed a fair bit. Most web authors use
<div>s and <span>s in stead of standard input controls. Making it
accessible would require an ARIA role on the content as well as ARIA
attributes </rss>
We also may have a situation like the following:
<table role="grid" onclick="foo()">
<TR><TD>cell 1</td></tr>
</table>
The hit test region could be for cell 1 and then bubble up to the grid.
That is allowed. The event is routed to cell 1 and will then bubble
<rss> My point being the TD is not a standard input control. So, if it is
not an input control then the spec. wants you to supply a role but authors
do more than supply roles. Let's talk about this on the call. Perhaps Ian
will participate on the call today. </rss>
Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 12:35:13 PM---On
Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwRik Cabanier
---02/17/2014 12:35:13 PM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard
Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote: > Rik,
From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <
jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "
public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
Date: 02/17/2014 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com
> wrote:
Rik,
That design is fundamentally broken for these reasons:
If you were OK with the focus ring API, why are you not OK with hit
regions? It seems hit regions can do everything that focus rings could do
(except of course draw the focus boundary which is why we still have that
API)
1. It is frankly stupid that the fallback element needs to be an
HTML5 control and not having their be a role in fallback content
because authors are going to have to add states and properties.
Is the issue that there's no requirement for a role?
Can you elaborate?
2. Why would we make the author have to implement half the ARIA
work in the Canvas API and the other half in the fallback content?
Is this because you need to tag a group of elements with a role and you
can't assign a control to it?
If so, that is indeed a bit strange, but I don't really see a way around
it. Hit regions ignore the structure of the canvas shadow DOM so you have
to recreate it.
3. Events Bubble and a container may handle the event.
In short making these restrictive requirements makes absolutely no
technical sense whatsoever. It makes things harder on the
developer.
What would you like to see?
Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 10:00:08
AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schw
Rik Cabanier ---02/17/2014 10:00:08 AM---On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at
6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote: > Rik,
From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Jay Munro <
jaymunro@microsoft.com>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, "
public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Alexander
Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
Date: 02/17/2014 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
Rik,
Inherit, at this time, must mean that the role passed to
correspond with the fallback element must be available as an
element attribute on that element otherwise an accessibility
test tool will not pick it up.
What is the "role passed to correspond with the fallback element"?
You either have a control or you pass a role. It's not allowed to
do both
Another issue is that if there were a role on the fallback
element we cannot simply replace it as the ATs will not pick
up role changes. You would actually have to delete the node
and create a new one in its place having a new role.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Inactive hide details for Rik Cabanier ---02/16/2014 12:08:18
PM---On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger
<schwRik Cabanier ---02/16/2014 12:08:18 PM---On Sun, Feb 16,
2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com
>wrote: > Congrats to Mozil
From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <
public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>, Jay
Munro <jaymunro@microsoft.com>
Date: 02/16/2014 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <
schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
Congrats to Mozilla! We will still need the
drawFocusIfNeeded though per Rik's comment below.
One concern I have about the current hit region spec.
is that it only allows the author to provide a role
that does not show up in the DOM so until we get some
changes in that we want for ARIA 1.1 (to query the
role) the accessibility test tools won't pick up the
role. Additionally, a role is not enough. We need
states and properties. We would be better to simply
apply ARIA attributes to the DOM at this time.
Hi Rich,
the minimal implementation always requires that you provide a
control (= an element in the fallback content).
The region is supposed to inherit the ARIA role of that
element. Would that not be sufficient?
Inactive hide details for Dominic Mazzoni ---02/14/2014
01:36:50 PM---I'm interested in implementing hit
regions in Chrome, butDominic Mazzoni ---02/14/2014
01:36:50 PM---I'm interested in implementing hit
regions in Chrome, but I haven't discussed it with all
of the sta
From: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
To: Jay Munro <jaymunro@microsoft.com>
Cc: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>, Alexander Surkov
<surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org
" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org
>
Date: 02/14/2014 01:36 PM
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
I'm interested in implementing hit regions in Chrome,
but I haven't discussed it with all of the stakeholders
at Google yet. I'm really excited to see that Mozilla
has already implemented it and that should definitely
give us some momentum.
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Jay Munro <
jaymunro@microsoft.com> wrote:
Lets see what folks say Monday on hit regions,
whether we put them in CR or not. Mark, want to
add it to the agenda?
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Rik Cabanier
Sent: 2/14/2014 11:20 AM
To: Jay Munro
Cc: Alexander Surkov; public-canvas-api@w3.org;
Mark Sadecki
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support update
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jay Munro <
jaymunro@microsoft.com> wrote:
We’ve already removed all the at risk
features with the exception of
drawFocusIfNeeded , which was agreed upon
in the A11y subgroup.
We'll have to bring it back if we want a11y to
work in canvas :-(
From: Rik Cabanier [mailto:
cabanier@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 10:15 AM
To: Jay Munro
Cc: Alexander Surkov;
public-canvas-api@w3.org; Mark Sadecki
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox support
update
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Jay Munro
<jaymunro@microsoft.com> wrote:
Do we have a 2nd implementation of
hitRegions?
We do not.
They are listed as at-risk so we can still
go to CR with them.
We should probably update the at-risk list
to state that part or all of hit regions
might be removed.
From: Rik Cabanier [mailto:
cabanier@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 9:33
AM
To: Alexander Surkov
Cc: public-canvas-api@w3.org; Mark
Sadecki
Subject: Re: hit regions Firefox
support update
I just requested that the patches are
checked into firefox.
If all goes well, this means that the
upcoming nightly build will have
basic support for hit regions.
If people had earlier tests for
drawFocusIfNeeded, they can simply
update them as follows.
old code:
ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element);
new code:
ctx.drawFocusIfNeeded(element);
ctx.addHitRegion({control:
element};
Alex, how can we turns hit regions
and focus rings on by default?
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:40 AM,
Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi. Here's an update of hit region
implementation in Firefox in case if
you're curious .
This week we've got a prototype of
hit regions which can be used to
change accessible boundaries. The
work hasn't been landed into Firefox
Nightly yet but there's a try build
[2].
There's no plans to continue the work
on drawFocusIfNeeded to fit it for
accessible boundaries setting since
hit regions looks promising. It's
worth to notice though that
drawFocusIfNeeded (used to draw the
focus) is part of Firefox and there's
no actions to undo this.
You can follow hit regions work by
watching Mozilla bug [1].
Thanks.
Alexander.
[1]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966591
[2]
https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=a0775f0bf042
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