W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-bpwg@w3.org > July 2005

RE: Best Practices document - not best practices

From: Tim Moss <Tim@bango.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:25:17 +0100
Message-ID: <2BC2AEC80DD48B40AAAB98A4BE71B5C9667C99@erol.Westbrooke.bango.net>
To: "Holley Kevin \(Centre\)" <Kevin.Holley@O2.com>, "Ray Anderson" <Ray@bango.com>, "Daniel Barclay" <daniel@fgm.com>, "Barbara Ballard" <barbara@littlespringsdesign.com>
Cc: <public-bpwg@w3.org>
I agree that guidelines or best practices applied when designing a page
'intended' for PC web browsers, that give a reasonable experience when
that page is viewed on a mobile device will be very useful.
 
Surely this isn't the ultimate goal though.  
 
The ideal is that the information available is output in a way that is
*optimised* as much as possible for the device it is being displayed on.
On a mid format device e.g. a PDA then potentially little change is
required, but on a low end phone, then the navigation through the
information will need to completely change to provide the best
experience on that device.
 
However, until they get enough mobile users, I suspect that sites will
not be given the capability to dynamically adapt the content based on
the viewing device, so good practices for building static HTML pages in
a way that means that they at least can be viewed on a mobile device is
a useful step forward, but in my view only a fairly small step.
 
 
Bango give content providers an easy mechanism for publishing a single
URL in print etc. and taking the user to content suitable for their
device.
 
 
Tim
 
 
Tim Moss
CTO
Bango
 
e: tim@bango.com
m: +44 78 8779 4032
t: +44 12 2347 2823
w: http://www.bango.com <http://www.bango.com/> 
 
  
  
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________________________________

	From: Holley Kevin (Centre) [mailto:Kevin.Holley@O2.com] 
	Sent: 22 July 2005 09:03
	To: Ray Anderson; Daniel Barclay; Barbara Ballard
	Cc: public-bpwg@w3.org; Tim Moss
	Subject: RE: Best Practices document - not best practices
	
	
	Dear Ray and all,
	 
	I think that this goes to show that we need a change of culture
such that web designers take the mobile users into consideration when
designing a website.  We should not create a second class overlay web
which has a few "mobile web" pages but should try to encourage the
design-in of mobile friendliness at the start.
	 
	I think in particular it would be useful if web design tools
show how the pages look when viewed with a mobile device.
	 
	At the end of the day the most open system is one where the end
user decides whether to use the mobile device for viewing a particular
site, and not the original designer, who is unlikely to understand all
possible use cases.
	 
	Regards,
	 
	Kevin
	
	 

		-----Original Message-----
		From: Ray Anderson [mailto:ray@bango.com] 
		Sent: 22 July 2005 06:45
		To: Holley Kevin (Centre); Daniel Barclay; Barbara
Ballard
		Cc: public-bpwg@w3.org; tim@bango.com
		Subject: RE: Best Practices document - not best
practices
		
		
		Try viewing www.nokia.com
		
		<http://www.nokia.com/> Thats certainly not viewable
from most small devices, because it has huge images, flash animation
etc.
		
		Contrast with vodafone.com which provides a smaller site
optimized for mobile when viewed from i-mode or WAP devices
		
		Ray
		At 21:24 20/07/2005, Holley Kevin \(Centre\) wrote:
		
		

			Could I ask how we tell the difference between
"mobile web" and "regular
			web" ?
			
			Personally I use a mobile device to view "web"
pages.  In many cases I
			can read what is there irrespective of whether
the target is "mainstream
			web" or "mobile web".  
			
			Witness http://www.google.com/ 
			
			This website displays very well on mobile
devices and desktop-based
			browsers.
			
			Regards,
			
			Kevin 
			
			-----Original Message-----
			
	
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			From: public-bpwg-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-bpwg-request@w3.org] On
			Behalf Of Daniel Barclay
			Sent: 20 July 2005 17:26
			To: Barbara Ballard
			Cc: public-bpwg@w3.org
			Subject: Re: Best Practices document - not best
practices
			
			
			
			Barbara Ballard wrote:
			>> I think you missed my point:  It's a bit
contradictory 
			>> (hypocritical?) for a page about best
practices for the mobile web to
			
			>> not follow best practices for the regular
web.
			> 
			> 
			> If the document is written for mobile web,
then best practices for  
			> the
			> regular web are irrelevant.  
			
			The document _about_ the mobile web is
_presented_ on the regular web.
			
			Although good practices for the regular web may
be irrelevent to the
			_content_ of the document, they are certainly
relevant to the
			_presentation_ of the document.
			
			Not bothering to understand and follow good
practices for the regular
			web in the presentation of that document
certainly does not instill
			confidence in the content.
			
			
			 > In fact, best practices for the  regular
			> web can greatly interfere with the experience
on the mobile web.
			
			Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if you're
referring to common
			practices that I'd argue aren't good practices
(e.g., pages or text
			documents that have widths tied to fixed-width
elements).
			
			
			Daniel

		
		Ray Anderson   CEO Bango   ray@bango.com
www.bango.com <http://www.bango.com/>  Mobile: +44 7768 454545  Fax: +44
20 7692 5558  
		
		Come and see Bango at Mobile Entertainment Summit 2005,
Hilton Universal City, Los Angeles, USA   27-28 July
www.ihollywoodforum.com 
		 
		
		
Received on Friday, 22 July 2005 11:25:26 UTC

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