- From: Carole Goble <carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk>
- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:20:53 +0000
- To: LJ.Garcia <lj.garcia.co@gmail.com>, Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@manchester.ac.uk>
- CC: Yvan Le Bras <yvan.le-bras@mnhn.fr>, Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@gmail.com>, public-bioschemas <public-bioschemas@w3.org>, Fabien Gandon <fabien.gandon@inria.fr>, Herbert Van de Sompel <hvdsomp@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <LO2P265MB36594237491673036B0A7A0CA1C59@LO2P265MB3659.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Looping in Herbert Van de Sompel, worldwide Signposting expert
Carole
Professor Carole Goble CBE FREng FBCS CITP
Department of Computer Science
The University of Manchester,
Manchester, M13 9PL, UK
Head of Node ELIXIR-UK<https://elixiruknode.org/>
PLEASE Do not send me a calendar invite and expect me to see it. (i) Invites only work 50% of the time (ii) if they do work they do not appear as email so I don’t know they are there until it is too late.
Want me at a meeting? Email me. Don’t just silently sneak into a diary I do not use.
From: LJ.Garcia <lj.garcia.co@gmail.com>
Sent: 19 January 2023 18:41
To: Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>; Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@manchester.ac.uk>
Cc: Yvan Le Bras <yvan.le-bras@mnhn.fr>; Carole Goble <carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk>; Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@gmail.com>; public-bioschemas <public-bioschemas@w3.org>; Fabien Gandon <fabien.gandon@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: How to mark up a document other than a web page?
Hi Franck,
What you mention about using the HTTP header reminds me of Signposting (https://signposting.org/). Have you seen this approach? I am still have to catch up with this subject so adding more people to the loop with better knowledge on it.
Kind regards,
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:48 PM Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr<mailto:fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>> wrote:
Dear all,
Thank you for your remarks and comments. Actually I feel like the discussion has already gone way beyond my initial question and proposition.
My point was to figure out a simple way to provide metadata about any kind of resource on the web, not only web pages, in the form of Schema.org markup.
RO-Crate is definitely a very interesting initiative but it primarily concerns communities used to dealing with large data repositories like Zenodo or Dataverse. Besides, it requires to encapsulate the produced objects within an package (archive) that contains all necessary additional metadata. This is great for enforcing FAIR ROs, but apart from such specific needs, an image on the web will remain available as a raw jpg or png file, same thing for a pdf, music, spreadsheet etc. We cannot expect each web master to encapsulate those objects in RO-Crate packages.
A way to mark up an object is to create a web page that links to this object, and add markup on that page. But whenever the object is accessed directly by its URL, it has no more markup data. As a result, SEO practices have terrible recommendations like naming image files with a super long name containing the name of the thing being represented, its description, the image resolution etc. Ugly, right? XMP (Extensible Metadata Platform) allows to embed metadata in binary files. That's much better but this is limited to a few file types and this requires to parse the content of the file itself.
So my point is: we can link objects on the web to their metadata with a mechanism that has been there since HTTP 1.0 (RFC1945<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1945#page-59>, 1996!), that is almost the beginning of the web: the HTTP Link header. Hence the example of a web server that returns a pdf document along with this header:
Link: <document_metadata.json>; rel="meta"; type="application/ld+json"
Upside: it does not break nor impose anything. HTTP clients that don't care or understand JSON-LD will just ignore it. Those that can consume JSON-LD will fetch the metadata and use the Schema.org annotations to do whatever they want. This way, search engines will know precisely what's in the object, making tools like Google Image able to index images much more effectively.
Downside: there has to be a second HTTP get query to retrieve the JSON-LD metadata. No big deal.
Does it make sense or is it just totally obvious?
Franck.
Le 05/01/2023 à 11:55, Yvan Le Bras a écrit :
Hi Franck, Carole, hi everyone,
Let me first wish you all a happy new year !
Sorry if I misunderstood or if I am totally wrong, but it appears to me important to try expose my point of view ;)
Looking at your question Franck, and at answer from Carole notably, it seems to me that 1/ schemas.org<http://schemas.org> is made to mark-up web pages and e-mail messages 2/ using an intermediate ""metadata layer"" who can be RDFa or JSON-LD for example.
Thus, to add schemas.org<http://schemas.org> vocabulary to ""files"", it appears to me the best is to use a metadata standard who describes the data, and for example also URLs to download data files, and then can be exposed in RDFa or JSON-LD for example through web pages where there schemas.org<http://schemas.org> vocabulary is used... So in structured data accessible on the internet.
Thus, we can use RO-Crate or other standardized way to produce RO metadata using schemas.org<http://schemas.org> on JSON-LD web pages (for example we do so in Ecology using "Ecological Metadata Language" standard and we can look at the structured data on the data catalog like here https://data.pndb.fr/view/urn:uuid:99abf52c-b271-4b66-ae50-c504e492bc4c where we are using notably "schemaVersion", "url", "dataPublished", "dateModified", "description", "keywords", "creator", "temporalCoverage", "SubjectOf", "fileFormat", "spatialCoverage", ""geo", "latitude", "longitude", "variableMeasured" schema.org<http://schema.org> terms)
=> Here I give the EML oriented example because it allows us to have detailled metadata, notably with the "variableMeasured" who is something allowing our datasets to have a particularly higher FAIRness.
Please, don't hesitate to comment !
Wishing you a very good end of week,
Best,
Yvan
________________________________
De: "Carole Goble" <carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk><mailto:carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk>
À: "Dan Bolser" <dan.bolser@gmail.com><mailto:dan.bolser@gmail.com>, "Franck Michel" <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr><mailto:fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>
Cc: "public-bioschemas" <public-bioschemas@w3.org><mailto:public-bioschemas@w3.org>, "Fabien Gandon" <fabien.gandon@inria.fr><mailto:fabien.gandon@inria.fr>
Envoyé: Jeudi 5 Janvier 2023 11:09:11
Objet: RE: How to mark up a document other than a web page?
https://zenodo.org/record/7147703#.Y7agoxXP2F4 is a longer talk that sets up the RO-Crate vision
Carole
Professor Carole Goble CBE FREng FBCS CITP
Department of Computer Science
The University of Manchester,
Manchester, M13 9PL, UK
Head of Node ELIXIR-UK<https://elixiruknode.org/>
PLEASE Do not send me a calendar invite and expect me to see it. (i) Invites only work 50% of the time (ii) if they do work they do not appear as email so I don’t know they are there until it is too late.
Want me at a meeting? Email me. Don’t just silently sneak into a diary I do not use.
From: Carole Goble <carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk><mailto:carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk>
Sent: 05 January 2023 09:54
To: Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@gmail.com><mailto:dan.bolser@gmail.com>; Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr><mailto:fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>
Cc: public-bioschemas@w3.org<mailto:public-bioschemas@w3.org>; Fabien Gandon <fabien.gandon@inria.fr><mailto:fabien.gandon@inria.fr>; Carole Goble <carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk><mailto:carole.goble@manchester.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: How to mark up a document other than a web page?
I have forwarded this thread to RO-Crate folks to pitch in
RO-Crate https://www.researchobject.org/ro-crate/ packages files and annotates them with rich metadata (using Bagit). It uses JSON-LD and schema.org<http://schema.org>. It’s an example of using schema.org<http://schema.org> for multiple files not web pages.
RO-Crate has gained a lot of traction in organisations needing to exchange digital objects with structured machine readable metadata, and is designed to be repository neutral – that is, enable inter-repo exchange. Zenodo and DataVerse have work ongoing to build compliance.
https://zenodo.org/record/7376356#.Y7adghXP2F4 is a talk about the repository overlay aspect of RO-Crate
Carole
Professor Carole Goble CBE FREng FBCS CITP
Department of Computer Science
The University of Manchester,
Manchester, M13 9PL, UK
Head of Node ELIXIR-UK<https://elixiruknode.org/>
PLEASE Do not send me a calendar invite and expect me to see it. (i) Invites only work 50% of the time (ii) if they do work they do not appear as email so I don’t know they are there until it is too late.
Want me at a meeting? Email me. Don’t just silently sneak into a diary I do not use.
From: Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@gmail.com<mailto:dan.bolser@gmail.com>>
Sent: 05 January 2023 09:39
To: Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr<mailto:fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>>
Cc: public-bioschemas@w3.org<mailto:public-bioschemas@w3.org>; Fabien Gandon <fabien.gandon@inria.fr<mailto:fabien.gandon@inria.fr>>
Subject: Re: How to mark up a document other than a web page?
https://www.tomforth.co.uk/scienceandpdfs/
Looks useful
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 5:50 PM Franck Michel <fmichel@i3s.unice.fr<mailto:fmichel@i3s.unice.fr>> wrote:
Dear community,
First of all, let me wish you all a happy, richly marked up new year ;).
Schema.org is meant to mark up ressources of any kind on the internet, not just web pages. While presenting Bioschemas, I once had this question: how do I mark up a pdf file? More generally, how to mark up any resource other than an html or xml-based content, like pdf, image, csv, Excel sheet, zip archive etc. ?
I recently asked this during a BSC meeting but it seemed that nobody had really faced this use case yet. And I did a quick Google search but nothing came up. So I'd be interested in having your thoughts on this.
A basic solution would be to insert markup in the web page that provides the download link. Not so satisfying since, when an application downloads the file using its direct URL, there is no more markup.
I could think of a simple solution that uses the HTTP Link header to point to a file containing the markup data (similarly to what's been done in JSON-LD<https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#interpreting-json-as-json-ld> or CSCW<https://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-model/#link-header>). The exchange would look like this:
GET /document.pdf HTTP/1.1
Host: example.com<http://example.com>
====================================
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Content-Type: application/pdf
Link: <document_metadata.json>; rel="meta"; type="application/ld+json"
...
Where document_metadata.json is a JSON-LD description of the file and its topic (written with Schema.org and Bioschemas of course). I'm not sure whether rel="meta" is the best choice here, but that's just an example.
Note that some metadata may already be embedded in pdf and image files by means of XMP<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform>, where Schema.org types and properties could be used. But this does not work with any type of file, plus applications may want to use only HTTP-based mechanisms to get the markup data, rather than have to read the content of binary files.
Have you seen this kind of use case and usage somewhere? Any other solution you could think of? Do search engines expect this kind of linking to external markup files?
Thx in advance. Regards,
Franck.
--
Franck MICHEL, CNRS research engineer
Université Côte d’Azur, CNRS, Inria
I3S laboratory (UMR 7271)
--
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Responsable scientifique et technique "Pole National de Données de Biodiversité" https://www.pndb.fr/
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Received on Friday, 20 January 2023 09:21:11 UTC