Re: JSON-LD and context questions (plus no additionalType and I don't like DataRecord)

This is partly a matter of personal preference, but I strongly prefer 
relegating all "@"s to the context and using shorthands like "id" and 
"type" in the body.

On 21 Nov 2018, at 7:54, Melanie Courtot wrote:

> Thanks both, that looks much more straighforward. I see that the 
> identifier property from bioschema in my original snippet,  
> "identifier": "biosample:SAMEA100000”, as also been rewritten using 
> @id - shouldn’t we expand the biosample prefix in the context as 
> well then? The final version would then be:
>
> {
>  "@context": [ "http://schema.org <http://schema.org/>",
>  {
>    "OBI" :"http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_ 
> <http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_>”
>    “biosample":”http://identifiers.org/biosample 
> <http://identifiers.org/biosample>"
>  }],
>  "@type": "DataRecord",
>  "@id": "biosample:SAMEA100000",
>  "mainEntity": {
>    "@type" : ["Sample","OBI:0000747"]
>  }
> }
>
>
> I’m still unclear about the notation  "@context": 
> "http://schema.org” - is that the default context for anything not 
> otherwise bound to a prefix?
>
> Is there a difference between @context": "http://schema.org” and
> "@context":{
>         "@base": "http://schema.org",
>     }
> As said I couldn’t find an explanation for the syntax "@context": 
> "http://schema.org” in the json-ld spec at 
> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-context 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-context>
>
>
>
> Finally  (and that’s maybe Jerven feels about strongly as well, 
> given the edits to the subject line ;)): we now have a DataRecord with 
> ID as well as the mainEntity of the page with the same ID.
>
>   "mainEntity": {
>     "@id": ""biosample:SAMEA100000",
>
>
> Should we use @id in the data Record as the actual URL of the 
> biosamples page we are referring to, i.e., 
> https://www.ebi.ac.uk/biosamples/samples/SAMEA100000 
> <https://www.ebi.ac.uk/biosamples/samples/SAMEA100000>, and the the ID 
> of the mainEntity is the identifiers.org <http://identifiers.org/> 
> “canonical” IRI for this sample?  It seems a little bit circular 
> to be honest. We may be better off saying this is a dataRecord with  
> "@id": "biosample:SAMEA100000” and then not have an ID for the 
> mainEntity? Or is the circularity not a problem?
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> Melanie
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 21 Nov 2018, at 15:26, Jerven Bolleman <jerven.bolleman@sib.swiss> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Melanie, Leyla,
>>
>> I see the error in my reply.
>>
>> You want to say the anonymous mainEntity is a schema:Sample and a 
>> OBI:0000747 at the same time.
>> Then you want to use this
>> {
>>  "@context": [ "http://schema.org",
>>  {
>>    "OBI" :"http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_"
>>  }],
>>  "@type": "DataRecord",
>>  "@id": "biosample:SAMEA100000",
>>  "mainEntity": {
>>    "@type" : ["Sample","OBI:0000747"]
>>  }
>> }
>>
>> There may be or may not be a file somewhere that relates the 
>> schema;Sample to OBI:0000747 in some way in the future but this is 
>> not expressible in a context in JSON-LD (not now in 1.0 nor in 1.1)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jerven
>> On 11/21/2018 03:45 PM, ljgarcia wrote:
>>> Hi Melanie,
>>> I do not see why you would need the second local context in your 
>>> example.
>>> Now, regarding http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747. Are you 
>>> trying to express that schema:Sample is somehow "inspired/based" on 
>>> http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747? If yes, you do not need 
>>> to add it here. That will be expressed somehow as part of the Sample 
>>> definition is schema.org. The "somehow" way to express it, I think 
>>> has not been agreed yet, it would be a property such as "baseOn", 
>>> "equivalentTo" or so.
>>> Kind regards,
>>> On 2018-11-21 14:00, Jerven Bolleman wrote:
>>>> Hi Melanie,
>>>>
>>>> I think you want to do this.
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>   "@context": [ "http://schema.org",
>>>>               {
>>>>                 "OBI" :"http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_"
>>>>               }
>>>>   ],
>>>>   "@type": "DataRecord",
>>>>   "@id": "biosample:SAMEA100000",
>>>>   "mainEntity": {
>>>>     "@type" : "OBI:0000747"
>>>>   }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Here we start with merging two contexts. The standard schema.org 
>>>> and
>>>> one just for your file. Here trying to make the OBI one easier to
>>>> read.
>>>>
>>>> So your top level is a DataRecord linked via schema:mainEntity to
>>>> something with type "OBI:0000747".
>>>>
>>>> You can see what a JSON-LD snipit means in RDF at
>>>> https://json-ld.org/playground/ e.g. http://tinyurl.com/y9ccen2j
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am repeating myself here but in additionalType is only for the
>>>> MicroData serialization which no one in the bioschema space seems 
>>>> to
>>>> use.
>>>>
>>>> If you have more than one type just do
>>>>
>>>> {
>>>>   "@context": [ "http://schema.org",
>>>>               {
>>>>                 "OBI" :"http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_"
>>>>               }
>>>>   ],
>>>>   "@type": [ "DataRecord", "Thing", "WebPage" ],
>>>>   "@id": "biosample:SAMEA100000",
>>>>   "mainEntity": {
>>>>     "@type" : "OBI:0000747"
>>>>   }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> To be honest I don't like the DataRecord at all and am still
>>>> advocating it's removal from bioschema. Mostly because schema.org
>>>> doesn't have StoreRecord, just Store.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jerven
>>>>
>>>> PS Alasdair, Leyla maybe remove additionalType considering the
>>>> confusion it has generated and we have no Microdata examples.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2018 02:40 PM, Melanie Courtot wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi - following up discussions at the BioHackathon we’re looking 
>>>>> at updating our sample serialisation. We are running into some 
>>>>> questions with respect to the context usage and are hoping someone 
>>>>> can help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Specifically, I’m trying to understand the usage of contexts and 
>>>>> base IRIS - I’m familiar with XML base and namespaces as well as 
>>>>> RDF, but I was looking at some schema.org <http://schema.org> 
>>>>> JSON-LD and trying to understand nuances based on the official 
>>>>> spec at https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-context
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the relevant excerpt from our serialisation:
>>>>>
>>>>> {
>>>>>    "@context": "http://schema.org",
>>>>>    "@type": "DataRecord",
>>>>>    "identifier": "biosample:SAMEA100000",
>>>>>    "mainEntity": {
>>>>>      "@context": [
>>>>>        "http://schema.org",
>>>>>        {
>>>>>          "@base": "http://schema.org"
>>>>>        },
>>>>>        {
>>>>>          "Sample": {
>>>>>            "@id": "http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747"
>>>>>          }
>>>>>        }
>>>>>      ],
>>>>> ….
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As you can see there is a repetition of contexts and base that I 
>>>>> don’t think is needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The first context, which is at the top level in our sample 
>>>>> page, seems to match example 4 from the spec, and would actually 
>>>>> be a reference to another json-ld context? Though it doesn’t 
>>>>> point to a json-ld file. I couldn’t find this specific notation 
>>>>> anywhere else in the JSON-LD spec, but this is what is used 
>>>>> throughout on schema.org <http://schema.org>, eg 
>>>>> https://schema.org/Person, example 1 in json-ld.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The whole page is a DataRecord (where DataRecord is a new type 
>>>>> we are proposing to schema.org <http://schema.org>, so should 
>>>>> expand to http://schema.org/DataRecord) - which is expected as we 
>>>>> want to describe a data record in our resource, and we then 
>>>>> describe the mainEntity in that DataRecord.
>>>>> As you can see, the context is redefined in mainEntity - my 
>>>>> understanding is that this means this specific context declaration 
>>>>> will be valid only within the scope of that mainEntity. This 
>>>>> context reads
>>>>>
>>>>>      "@context": [
>>>>>        "http://schema.org",
>>>>>        {
>>>>>          "@base": "http://schema.org"
>>>>>        },
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t understand what the first "http://schema.org” means, 
>>>>> and whether it’s needed as we explicitly define the base. Also 
>>>>> this seems redundant with the global page context we have defined 
>>>>> at the page level, so I’d be tempted to just have
>>>>>
>>>>>      "@context": {
>>>>>          "@base": "http://schema.org"
>>>>>        },
>>>>>
>>>>> At the top level.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Finally, we are trying to say that http://schema.org/Sample 
>>>>> (which is a new type we’re proposing) also has the IRI 
>>>>> "http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747”. I’m not sure 
>>>>> adding
>>>>>
>>>>>        {
>>>>>          "Sample": {
>>>>>            "@id": "http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/OBI_0000747"
>>>>>          }
>>>>>
>>>>> In the context is the right way of doing it, or whether we should 
>>>>> just add an additionalType <https://schema.org/additionalType> 
>>>>> property on the sample object later on - or should we do both?
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies for the rather long email, but I hope we have a JSON-LD 
>>>>> specialist on this list that can provide some guidance as to how 
>>>>> we should best use those. Thanks in advance for any help!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Melanie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Mélanie Courtot, PhD
>>>>> GA4GH/BioSamples Project lead
>>>>> European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL-EBI)
>>>>>
>>
>>