- From: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>
- Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:16:25 +0200
- To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Cc: Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>, AWWSW TF <public-awwsw@w3.org>
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us> wrote: > Let me give an intuitive case in support of the Nays here. An RDF graph is a > set, which is not the same as a document, for sure. The *same* graph can be > encoded in a variety of different syntactic forms. Try re-running this to show that digital images aren't information resources? 'The *same* digital image can be encoded in a variety of different syntactic forms (PNG, GIF, JPEG, SVG, ...). (Or even that books aren't information resources ('the same book can be encoded in a variety of different forms; both digital (text,html,pdf and various arrangements of atoms).) > Consider two documents, > one in RDF/XML, the other in NTriples, describing the same graph. If we > identify the document with the graph it describes, then these have to be the > same. But they aren't the same. So even if a graph is an information > resource (and I agree that one can make out a case for that position), it > certainly isn't the same information resource as any document (In RDF/XML or > NTriples or any other notation) that represents it syntactically. So, one > ought to use redirection to refer to it, according to http-range-14. So, > whether its an information resource or not is kind of moot, since even if it > is, it can't be directly identified by a URI which returns a 200 code. http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home.png http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home.gif http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home One generic digital resource, two specific 'bags of bits' that encode it, three URIs and here's the gory details from talking to W3C's server: First we make three requests to the server; first time not expressing a preference towards any type of bag of bits, then we say we prefer gif, then we say we prefer png: curl --dump-header h1 -o f1 http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home curl -H 'Accept: image/gif' --dump-header h2 -o f2 http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home curl -H 'Accept: image/png' --dump-header h3 -o f3 http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home This gives us 3 files, two of which are identical in content: Dan-Brickleys-MacBook-Pro:img danbri$ ls -l f* -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri staff 1936 14 May 09:07 f1 -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri staff 1865 14 May 09:08 f2 -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri staff 1936 14 May 09:08 f3 If we check the headers, we see that 200 was used each time even when the bytestream content varied. I believe you're using the word 'document' at least sometimes to individuate about those things. The variants seem to have the exact same last-modified time; this could have been because they were part of the same CVS commit action to w3.org. Dan-Brickleys-MacBook-Pro:img danbri$ file f* f1: PNG image, 72 x 48, 8-bit colormap, non-interlaced f2: GIF image data, version 89a, 72 x 48 f3: PNG image, 72 x 48, 8-bit colormap, non-interlaced Dan-Brickleys-MacBook-Pro:img danbri$ cat h1 HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:07:49 GMT Server: Apache/2 Content-Location: w3c_home.png Vary: negotiate,accept TCN: choice Last-Modified: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:58:33 GMT ETag: "790-4195514757840;48498becf6180" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 1936 Cache-Control: max-age=2592000 Expires: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:07:49 GMT P3P: policyref="http://www.w3.org/2001/05/P3P/p3p.xml" Connection: close Content-Type: image/png; qs=0.7 Dan-Brickleys-MacBook-Pro:img danbri$ cat h2 HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:08:09 GMT Server: Apache/2 Content-Location: w3c_home.gif Vary: negotiate,accept TCN: choice Last-Modified: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:58:33 GMT ETag: "749-4195514757840;48498becf6180" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 1865 Cache-Control: max-age=2592000 Expires: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:08:09 GMT P3P: policyref="http://www.w3.org/2001/05/P3P/p3p.xml" Connection: close Content-Type: image/gif; qs=0.5 Dan-Brickleys-MacBook-Pro:img danbri$ cat h3 HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:08:22 GMT Server: Apache/2 Content-Location: w3c_home.png Vary: negotiate,accept TCN: choice Last-Modified: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:58:33 GMT ETag: "790-4195514757840;48498becf6180" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 1936 Cache-Control: max-age=2592000 Expires: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:08:22 GMT P3P: policyref="http://www.w3.org/2001/05/P3P/p3p.xml" Connection: close Content-Type: image/png; qs=0.7 Can you re-tell your story in a way that allows the abstract digital image here to be an information resource? If we substitute RDF/XML for GIF, NTriples for PNG, and 'digital image' for 'graph' you seem to be arguing that W3C's Web server is misconfigured, and that the 200 HTTP answers here are inappropriate. Or am I misreading your point? cheers, Dan
Received on Friday, 14 May 2010 08:09:28 UTC