- From: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
- Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:19:47 -0500
- To: AWWSW TF <public-awwsw@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html
and below in plain text.
-------------------------------
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
AWWSW
16 Feb 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-irc
Attendees
Present
David_Booth, Michael_Hausenblas, Jonathan_Rees, Dan_Connolly
Regrets
Chair
Jonathan Rees (jar)
Scribe
dbooth
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Semantics of HTTP
* [5]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<mhausenblas> heya
hi michael
<mhausenblas> ouch, again your telecon bridge, hm?
sure
i'll get it for you
danc, w'er using my bridge i gave you in private IRC
danc, shall we switch to zakim?
<jar> hello... no luck with zakim just now
<DanC> symptoms?
<jar> i sent email to amy yesterday, too late i guess
<DanC> passcode?
<jar> 'that code is not valid'
<jar> i'll try again
<DanC> I just did an instant telcon
ok, we/ll switch to zakim.
<mhausenblas> ACTIONS?
<DanC> trackbot, action-1?
Semantics of HTTP
<trackbot> Sorry, DanC, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-1?'.
Please refer to [6]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
[6] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<DanC> action-1?
<trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Stuart Williams to send us a link -- due
2007-12-04 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> [7]http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/actions/1
[7] http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/actions/1
<mhausenblas>
[8]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/awwsw/http-semantics-report.html
[8] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/awwsw/http-semantics-report.html
<DanC> (I can show you the logic I used in
[9]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/story.html )
[9] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/story.html
danc: What problem are we solving?
jar: Expressing semantics of http interaction in rdf.
<DanC> . [10]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
[10] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
danc: http can be described to any level of detail
dbooth: yes, but we don't yet have agreement on any levels of
detail. we need to choose both a level of detail and reach
agreement.
danc: let's look at
[11]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
<DanC> _:some_connection ht:requests (_:some_request).
danc: in this model, _:some_request has time in it, so two different
requests might send the same bytes.
<DanC> information(message, resource, hunk_of_data)
danc: you could also use a 3-ary relationship.
... I also did something on caching, not included in this page
<DanC> (caching thing is in
[12]http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP )
[12] http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
jar: to use timbl's notion of FixedResource, you need to express
time.
danc: to deal with time in the way I've approached it, you'd say
that for a FixedResource the max cardinality of :information
property is 1.
<Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask DanC about status code vs
method interdepencies
<mhausenblas>
[13]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-08#se
ction-9.9
[13] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-08#section-9.9
michael: can we use the "via" header?
<DanC> <[14]http://foo> log:uri "[15]http://foo"
[14] http://foo%3E/
[15] http://foo/
michael; (looking at why you use log:uri )
jar: in the other paper i want to focus on what the server is saying
about the resource.
<DanC> (other classes in tim's thing? pointer?)
dbooth: 301 (Moved Permanently) would seem to have to deal with
time.
<DanC> caching thing... [16]http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
[16] http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
jar: one of my goals was to show how little there is in the
semantics of http interactions, as a way to motivate more layers.
<DanC> I think an information property (which is time-oblivious) and
an information2 (which needs a better name and is time/message
sensitive)
jar: e.g., the httpRange-14 rule is murky.
danc: i think httpRange-14 is a social convention that is followed,
and agents shoudl follow this convention.
<jar> Alan R is urging the OBO ontologies never to use 200 for any
URI in any ontology, because the specs are screwed up, in his view
<jar> i.e. always use 303 (or #, but Alan doesn't like # for other
reasons)
<mhausenblas> Michael strongly disagrees with Alan's views, btw ;)
<jar> i.e. OBO should follow the TAG's advice, but finds doing so
inconsistent with 200, since it's unclear what an "information
resource" is or isn't
<DanC> . ISSUE: definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information
resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who
are avoiding 200
<mhausenblas> +!
<mhausenblas> +1
<DanC> ISSUE: definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information
resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who
are avoiding 200
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-3 - Definitions of HTTP semantics (near
"information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO
designers, who are avoiding 200 ; please complete additional details
at [17]http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3/edit .
[17] http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3/edit
<DanC> hs:information s:subPropertyOf c:says.
<mhausenblas> ISSUE-3?
<trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- Definitions of HTTP semantics (near
"information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO
designers, who are avoiding 200 -- RAISED
<trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3
[18] http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3
<jar> informationResource subclassof Principal
<DanC> "Indirection needs Redirection"
[19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/badmeta.html
[19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/badmeta.html
<jar> server says (resource says X) does not imply server says X
jar: I view awww:InformationResource as a subclass of Principal.
danc: regarding [20]http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics how
about using messages instead of time? Time is partially ordered in
http.
... There's a :happensBefore relation between messages.
... In caching protocols, the second request is causally related to
the first response, as evidenced in the cache validation header.
E.g., you get back a picture with etag 100. Then you send another
request includeing etag 100.
[20] http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics
<DanC> [21]http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
[21] http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
<DanC> ∧ mp < mq2
danc: but i didn't handle VARY in that caching stuff.
<DanC> represents(mp2, i, cbody)
<jar> look at IAO information artifact ontology
<jar> [22]http://code.google.com/p/information-artifact-ontology/
[22] http://code.google.com/p/information-artifact-ontology/
<DanC> ACTION: DanC look at IAO and propose HTTP semantics
sufficient to address their concerns [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Look at IAO and propose HTTP
semantics sufficient to address their concerns [on Dan Connolly -
due 2010-02-23].
<mhausenblas> title for [24]http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
[24] http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
<DanC> "Specifying Web Architecture with Larch" --
[25]http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/
[25] http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/
<DanC> Dan Connolly
<DanC> 9th International World Wide Web Conference
<DanC> Amsterdam
<DanC> May 2000
<DanC> ACTION-23 due + 2 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-23 Review IRW and HTTP Ont OWL. due date now + 2
weeks
<DanC> looking at
[26]http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/agenda?duebefore=2010-03-03
[26] http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/agenda?duebefore=2010-03-03
<DanC> JAR: yes, next meeting 2 weeks time
<DanC> (2 March)
<DanC> ACTION-31: note
[27]http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics
[27] http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics
<trackbot> ACTION-31 Update draft to account for time-dependence of
describedBy notes added
<DanC> action-31 due +2 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-31 Update draft to account for time-dependence of
describedBy due date now +2 weeks
<DanC> action-32 due +2 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-32 Add time-oblivious HTTP exchange curation rules
to draft due date now +2 weeks
<scribe> scribe: dbooth
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: DanC look at IAO and propose HTTP semantics sufficient
to address their concerns [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [29]scribe.perl version 1.135
([30]CVS log)
$Date: 2010/02/16 15:17:17 $
_________________________________________________________
[29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [31]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
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[31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Succeeded: i/trackbot, action-1?/Topic: Semantics of HTTP
Found Scribe: dbooth
Inferring ScribeNick: dbooth
Present: David_Booth Michael_Hausenblas Jonathan_Rees Dan_Connolly
Got date from IRC log name: 16 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [32]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.ht
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People with action items: danc
[32] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html
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[33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
--
David Booth, Ph.D.
Cleveland Clinic (contractor)
Opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily
reflect those of Cleveland Clinic.
Received on Tuesday, 16 February 2010 15:20:16 UTC