- From: Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:10:55 -0400
- To: Alan Ruttenberg <alanruttenberg@gmail.com>
- Cc: AWWSW TF <public-awwsw@w3.org>, "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
On Mar 9, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Alan Ruttenberg wrote: > Some comments: > > 1) There are several relations used: > > has part > has temporal part > is encoded by > carries > responds with > provided via > stores/is faithful to > > It would help if there was some elaboration of what these mean. > Domain/Range would help, and a definition, or at least gloss for each > of these. Agreed > 2) "Concrete network data object" is not helpful, except perhaps as > the target of some AKA. Unless it is completely defined in terms of > the others. In which case it would helpful to know if so, and which > other things are dependent in this way. Examples: a file in a file system; a portion of the state of a router. My "concrete"/"abstract" distinction is supposed to be based on physical contingency: it is possible to destroy a concrete thing (e.g. by burning it), but not an abstract thing. I'm probably using the wrong word here. We could say generic/specific if we were in BFO land, but we're not. > 3) The link between "response from service" and "network service" > doesn't have a label. Also, what is the different between a solid line > link and a dashed line link? Dashed line is suggested by a convention in category theory, although I'm not using it really in the same way... it's just meant to say that there's a theorem to be proven, in the event this turned into a system that admits any theorems, that the diagram commutes. > > 4) I'm a bit dubious about the time varying information thing. I think > there are series of information things non-time-varying, and certain > kinds of processes that group such together. These processes are > different enough that I don't know how informative it is to talk about > the time varying thing on its own. It figures prominently in Tim's account, so I would like to keep it until such time as Tim no longer feels he needs it. > > (there may be other issues, but these are the ones that come to mind > immediately. FWIW, it does seem to be heading in the right direction) Thanks > > -Alan > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Jonathan Rees > <jar@creativecommons.org> wrote: >> Inspired by some comments Henry made about conneg at the recent TAG >> meeting >> I've made a third diagram to attempt to fit the conflicting theories >> together; see [1]. >> >> This is a bit more focused than diagram #2 [2], and it no longer >> talks about >> URIs, just the things that might or might not be named. >> >> The boxes are classes and the arrows are properties that might hold >> between >> members of the classes. 3D boxes are for things that have a time >> dimension >> of any kind. >> >> The theories to be reconciled are: >> 1. TimBL "generic resources" [3] >> 2. REST [4] >> 3. David Booth ftrr [5] >> 4. HTTP [6] >> >> I think the overall diagram makes a plausible story. >> - a single GR doesn't "know" (commit to, model) what >> representations are >> associated with its states >> - REST is very similar to David's ftrr - difference lies in >> treatment of >> request headers (e.g. User-agent) >> - a REST resource, or ftrr, commits at each time to some >> particular set of >> representations >> - thus there many REST resources that are all "faithful" to a >> single GR in >> the sense of delivering valid representations of the GR's states. >> Different >> granularity or identity criteria for the two classes. >> - GRs and REST resources are not inherently physically embodied >> - REST and ftrr are Platonic ideals (models) of hypothetical or real >> response sources >> - HTTP response sources are physically embodied, thus very >> different from >> both GRs and REST >> - but an HTTP response source can be "faithful" to a GR or a REST >> resource >> by implementing it correctly >> - an HTTP response source can do all sorts of things that are not >> modeled >> by GR or REST, such as deliver 3xx, 4xx, 5xx responses >> - RFC 2616 permits resources that are "network services" - it is not >> natural to talk about these having 'states' or 'representations' - >> not clear >> whether such services a REST resources at all - I don't think they >> should be >> considered so (service: random number generator, webcam, database >> query?) >> - not clear whether two distinct GRs can correspond to the same REST >> resource. I think not since then they would have incommunicable >> 'essential >> characteristics' >> >> Please don't jump on my terminology... it's easily changed. The >> main point >> is that the four theories are about different kinds of things with >> different >> identity criteria, but they can be related to one another in a >> sensible way. >> >> I think it's important to understand this story well before >> attempting to >> answer any questions about "identification". >> >> Jonathan >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/awwsw/jar-diagram-3.pdf >> [2] >> http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswHome?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=URI-representation-resource-unified.pdf >> [3] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Generic.html >> [4] http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/webarch_icse2000.pdf >> [5] >> http://www.w3.org/mid/184112FE564ADF4F8F9C3FA01AE50009FCF22AD676@G1W0486.americas.hpqcorp.net >> [6] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt >> >>
Received on Monday, 9 March 2009 21:11:34 UTC