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Re: German Translation WCAG 2.1 - Disapproval

From: Eric Eggert <eric@outline.rocks>
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 13:40:24 +0200
To: Stefan Schumacher <stefan@duckflight.de>
Cc: public-auth-trans-de@w3.org
Message-ID: <8BC035B6-B0E8-4ACF-80FB-F2DABD94A945@outline.rocks>
Hi Stefan,

Thanks for these mostly stylistic comments.

On 29 Apr 2022, at 15:55, Stefan Schumacher wrote:

> Comments to proposal 
> WCAG21_neue_und_geänderte_Glossareintrage_Uebersetzung_16072021_mitKommentaren14042022.pdf
> referred to as ZM_WCAG21_DE later on.
>
> -- 
>
> KAT:
> Durch Aufforderung des Benutzers beendet und nicht
> wieder gestartet, bis der Benutzer dies anfordert.
>
> ZM_WCAG21_DE:
> Durch Aufforderung des Benutzers gestoppt und nicht
> wieder gestartet, bis der Benutzer dies anfordert.
>
> beendet is indeed wrong in CAT-WCAG21-DE-20211004. Beendet means that 
> it's gone to the end.
> "gestoppt" or "angehalten" is a correct translation.
>
> I would prefer the latter, because pressing the STOP button has the 
> effect to go to the end of a track, a PAUSE button keeps the track at 
> the current position.
>
> "gestarted" is wrong in both translations. "resume" has a different 
> meaning.
>
> The sentence should read:
> "Durch Aufforderung des Benutzers angehalten und nicht durch 
> Aufforderung des Benutzers fortgesetzt."
>
> This part should definitely be changed.

I think I agree on the “angehalten” part, although in context of the 
SC you could say that the sound or animation is “beendet”, while the 
the media is paused in that moment.

>  und nicht durch Aufforderung des Benutzers fortgesetzt.

This would be a slightly misleading translation. It can be interpreted 
in two ways that the user needs to request that it resumes (the intended 
translation) or that it resumes without a request from the user. The 
English original uses the clear “until requested by user”.

> stopped by user request and not resumed until requested by user

So „nicht fortgesetzt bis der Benutzer dies anfordert“ would be the 
unambiguous translation. I think “wieder starten” and 
“fortsetzen” are pretty equivalent and I have no preference for 
either. That said, I think the combination of “anhalten“ and 
“fortsetzen” goes well together.

This feels like a very editorial change, so I took the liberty to adjust 
the sentence in the following way:

> Durch Aufforderung des Benutzers angehalten und nicht fortgesetzt, bis 
> der Benutzer dies anfordert.


>
>
> -- 
>
> KAT
> Diese Einheit ist dichteunabhängig.
>
> ZM_WCAG21_DE:
> Diese Einheit ist unabhängig von der Auflösung.
>
> The ZM translation doesn't include the issue of density.
> Auflösung != density(-independent)
>
> It could be translated as:
> Diese Einheit ist unabhängig von der Pixeldichte.
>
> The KAT translation is acceptable, the ZM translation not.
>
> -- 
>
> ZM_WCAG21_DE:
> Webinhalts-Technologie
>
> The German language doesn't really construct words like that, only if 
> the translator likes to stay too close to the english original:
>
> "Technologie für Webinhalt(e)" would sound German.
>
> Similar to:
> Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
> Richtlinien für barrierefreie Webinhalte
> -> reverse translation: Guidelines for accessible web content
>
>
> --
> ZM_WCAG21_DE:
> barrierefreiheits-unterstützt
>
> The meaning of this is twisted around in the original already. It 
> might work in english.
> "accessibility-supported user agents"
> Accessibility cannot support user agents.
> User agents "need to support/implement accessibility".
>
> German translations sometimes have to go away from the english words 
> and language twists to make the reader understand.
>
> "Benutzeragenten, die Barrierefreiheit unterstützen" is 
> understandable.
>
> In other cases phrases like
> "Unterstützung der Barrierefreiheit", "unterstützen 
> Barrierefreiheit"
> could be used, depending on the meaning of a specific sentence.
>
> The CAT version "Barrierefreiheit unterstützende ..." is not wrong 
> and sounds right and turns the above around -> the user agent supports 
> accessibility.
>
> CAT:
> The Web content technology must have
> accessibility-supported user agents that
> are available to users. This means that at
> least one of the following four statements is
> true:
>
> My translation for readers to understand the meaning easily:
> Technologien für Webinhalt müssen über Benutzeragenten verfügen, 
> die Barrierefreiheit unterstützen und diese Benutzeragenten müssen 
> für (End)benutzer verfügbar sein.
>
> Sometimes you just have to add a bit to a German translation to say it 
> in a way that would be understood by a German like the English text 
> would be understood by an English reader.

I played around with this sentence for a while but it just doesn’t 
work out with the UND of the previous point. As you note this is a 
stylistic change and pretty hard to understand in the original, I think 
being closer to the original is the better decision for now.

I would love to have simpler wording for this (and other parts of WCAG) 
in the original at some point.

👋 Eric

>
> -- 
>
> STS


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Received on Friday, 6 May 2022 11:40:50 UTC

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