Re: AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer how to work it.

I also agree. But note that case 1:

< case1 >
sourcenode.buffer = null;
sourcenode.start(0); // mute
...
sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound

I personally feel this should not be allowed either.


On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com> wrote:

> That would be my suggestion, yes.  Others should weigh in, though.
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:43 PM, KeonHo Kim <keonho07.kim@samsung.com>wrote:
>
>> @Chris Wilson.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for clarification.
>>
>> Can I expect one of future draft will be tried to included more explicit
>> description about this issue.?
>>
>> According to your opinion below 4 cases should throw exception. My
>> understanding is correct ? J
>>
>>
>>
>> < case1 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = null;
>> sourcenode.start(0);
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // Exception “It has been tried to
>> set buffer after AudioBufferSourceNode is already started.”
>>
>>
>>
>> < case2 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer;
>> sourcenode.start(0);
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = null; // Exception “It has been tried to set buffer
>> after AudioBufferSourceNode is already started.”
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // Exception “It has been tried to
>> set buffer after AudioBufferSourceNode is already started.”
>>
>>
>>
>> < case 3 >
>> sourcenode.start(0);
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // Exception “It has been tried to
>> set buffer after AudioBufferSourceNode is already started.”
>>
>>
>>
>> < case 5 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound buffer1
>>
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2; // Exception “It has been tried to
>> set buffer after AudioBufferSourceNode is already started.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Br,
>>
>> KeonHo
>>
>> *From:* Chris Wilson [mailto:cwilso@google.com]
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:48 AM
>> *To:* KeonHo Kim
>> *Cc:* Raymond Toy; public-audio@w3.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer how to work it.
>>
>>
>>
>> "null" refers to the Javascript null object; perhaps we need to be more
>> explicit about that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have no idea why any implementation would re-start the buffer once it's
>> already playing; personally, I think we should explicitly ignore setting
>> the buffer once it has been set.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:51 PM, KeonHo Kim <keonho07.kim@samsung.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-13 3:01 GMT+09:00 Raymond Toy <rtoy@google.com>:
>>
>> I think I'm confused.  The spec says:
>>
>>
>>
>> The number of channels of the output always equals the number of channels
>> of the AudioBuffer assigned to the .buffer attribute, or is one channel of
>> silence if .buffer is NULL.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had interpreted NULL to mean 0. But there's also the Javascript object
>> null.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what the spec is saying now, so my comments on your examples
>> maybe be all wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> "or is one channel of silence if .buffer is NULL."
>>
>> I believe that is Javascript object null. That was mentioned a nullable
>> buffer in this code reivew.
>>
>> If it is not common word expression "nullable", I sorry make you confused.
>>
>> https://codereview.chromium.org/190953005/
>>
>>
>>
>> In my investigation, source.buffer =0; returns
>>
>> FF TypeError : "Value being assigned to AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer is
>> not an object"
>>
>> Chrome TypeError : "Failed to set the 'buffer' property on
>> 'AudioBufferSourceNode': The provided value is not of type 'AudioBuffer'."
>>
>>
>>
>> source.buffer = null; returns
>>
>> FF : Fine.
>>
>> Chrome TypeError: "Failed to set the 'buffer' property on
>> 'AudioBufferSourceNode': buffer cannot be null."
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to fix this one on chrome, setting a nullable buffer.
>>
>>
>>
>> One second thoughts, "there was no "when" which could control accurate
>> timing on setting a buffer at source node that was already started.",
>>
>> I think we should consider about implementation separately between
>> AudioBufferSourceNode and AudioBuffer.
>>
>> The "when" in start() or stop()  is specific time
>> for AudioBufferSourceNode, NOT a buffer's start or stop timing.
>>
>> If JS developers want to make two sound stream with different timing,
>> they should have created two AudioBufferSourceNode as you know.
>>
>> But, AudioBufferSourceNode should be able to play any AudioBuffers even
>> if there is changing of AudioBuffer on runtime
>>
>> until finishing to render current AudioBuffers(no loop attributes in
>> sourceNode) or intentional calling stop().
>>
>>
>>
>> In AudioBufferSourceNode perspective, if there is a current buffer which
>> is not reached duration time, it must be running if there is no calling a
>> stop(0 or AudioContext.currentTime).
>>
>> In addition, if there is stop(AudioContext.currentTime + 20sec), Node
>> must be running until end time.
>>
>> According to https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/15, the
>> spec has been changed to allow calling a stop() multiple times differently
>> with start().
>>
>> "Discussion results: last-called stop() should take effect, i.e. an
>> overwrite of the last stop(). Multiple stop() invokes should not throw,
>> even if the playback has already stopped."
>>
>>
>>
>> It means JS developer can make stopping a AudioBufferSourceNode delay
>> with overwrite stop() with new "when".
>>
>>
>>
>> In spec,
>>
>> The stop method
>>
>> Schedules a sound to stop playback at an exact time.
>>
>> The *when* parameter describes at what time (in seconds) the sound
>> should stop playing. It is in the same time coordinate system as
>> AudioContext.currentTime. If 0 is passed in for this value or if the value
>> is less than*currentTime*, then the sound will stop playing immediately
>>
>>
>>
>> So, it mentioned AudioContext.currentTime. The "when" is based
>> on AudioContext.currentTime. It means JS developer should call start or
>> stop with "AudioContext.currentTime + delta".
>>
>> This kind of description supports that "when" is meaningful for
>> AudioBufferSourceNode's life cycle and scheduling, NOT a buffer.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that FF is working properly below 5 test cases.
>> https://codereview.chromium.org/190953005/, it is giving same behavior
>> to Chrome as FF do except case 5.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:42 PM, KeonHo Kim <keonho07.kim@samsung.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-12 2:31 GMT+09:00 Raymond Toy <rtoy@google.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:03 AM, KeonHo Kim <keonho07.kim@samsung.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Dear All.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there is setting a buffer of AudioBufferSourceNode, how it should work?
>>
>> I think that AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer should be able to set buffer
>> anytime whatever the node is playing or not.
>>
>> I believe if all cases are able to JS developer, it is fantastic.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that in all of the cases below, you don't have sample accurate
>> timing. The sound for meaningfulbuffer will start at some uncontrolled time
>> after setting the buffer.  I think in all cases you can get the effect you
>> want by just creating a new AudioBufferSourceNode with the appropriate
>> buffer and calling start and stop appropriately.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Rogers certainly intended that AudioBufferSourceNodes to be cheap
>> to create and use.
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> I'm getting clear what he intended from discussion with you. I
>> agree with you.
>>
>> There is no "when" which can control accurate timing.
>>
>> Don't we need to mention "setBuffer() must be called before calling
>> start()" such like this?.
>>
>> I think that will be helpful for developer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> < case1 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = null;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // mute
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> This case is, I think, currently supported, but I find it's behavior odd
>> because the sound will start at some uncontrolled time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> Actually, chrome returns domexception "ailed to set the 'buffer'
>> property on 'AudioBufferSourceNode': buffer cannot be null" on sourcenode.buffer
>> = null;
>>
>> Firefox is not.
>>
>> < case2 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = null; // mute
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is better done by calling sourcenode.stop() instead of
>> setting the buffer to null.  Then create a new new node with
>> meaningfulbuffer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> Yes, it is better approach to keep idea that Chris Rogers intent.
>>
>> < case 3 >
>> sourcenode.start(0);
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is the same as case 1
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> Firefox and Chrome work fine both.
>>
>> < case 4 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the normal case.
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> Firefox and Chrome work fine both.
>>
>> < case 5 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound buffer1
>>
>> …
>>
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2; // sound buffer2
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how that is supposed to work, especially since start() is
>> only allowed to be called once for each AudioBufferSourceNode.  Even if you
>> allowed more than one call, I still don't know how this is supposed to
>> behave.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Khno> Firefox and chrome are different.
>>
>>
>>
>> In FF
>>
>> If there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1" then start(0), play meaningfulbuffer1
>> from begin of buffer.
>>
>> Then, if there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2", sound changed
>> to meaningfulbuffer2 from begin of buffer.
>>
>> Then, if there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1" again, play meaningfulbuffer1
>> from middle of buffer when "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2" was
>> called.
>>
>>
>>
>> In Chrome
>>
>> If there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1" then start(0), play meaningfulbuffer1
>> from begin of buffer.
>>
>> Then, if there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2", sound changed
>> to meaningfulbuffer2 from begin of buffer.
>>
>> Then, if there is "sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1" again, play meaningfulbuffer1
>> from begin of buffer.
>>
>>
>>
>> If a JS developer can not do setting buffer multiple times or not allow
>> setting buffer after calling start() once, FF and Chrome have wrong
>> behavior both.
>>
>> How do you think this case ? Need to notify "Buffer can not be set more
>> than once" ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In spec, nullable buffer is existed which has mono channel silence can
>> help making source muted to AudioBufferSourceNode without stop().
>>
>> If setting buffer or calling start() is allowed more than once,
>> AudioBufferSourceNode can be reused.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any confirmed change about calling start() multiple times?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> However, it also has some issue.
>>
>> “The spec doesn't say, but the buffer attribute of an
>> AudioBufferSourceNode should probably be only settable once.
>>
>> If you've started the source node and change the buffer while the
>> previous buffer is playing, you have no control over when the new source
>> starts.”
>>
>> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/288
>>
>>
>>
>> Please feel free to give your opinion and correct way for Web Audio API.
>>
>>
>>
>> Br,
>>
>> Khno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Raymond Toy [mailto:rtoy@google.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:32 AM
>> *To:* KeonHo Kim
>> *Cc:* public-audio@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer how to work it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:03 AM, KeonHo Kim <keonho07.kim@samsung.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there is setting a buffer of AudioBufferSourceNode, how it should work?
>>
>> I think that AudioBufferSourceNode.buffer should be able to set buffer
>> anytime whatever the node is playing or not.
>>
>> I believe if all cases are able to JS developer, it is fantastic.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that in all of the cases below, you don't have sample accurate
>> timing. The sound for meaningfulbuffer will start at some uncontrolled time
>> after setting the buffer.  I think in all cases you can get the effect you
>> want by just creating a new AudioBufferSourceNode with the appropriate
>> buffer and calling start and stop appropriately.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Rogers certainly intended that AudioBufferSourceNodes to be cheap
>> to create and use.
>>
>>
>>
>> < case1 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = null;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // mute
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> This case is, I think, currently supported, but I find it's behavior odd
>> because the sound will start at some uncontrolled time.
>>
>> < case2 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = null; // mute
>> ...
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is better done by calling sourcenode.stop() instead of
>> setting the buffer to null.  Then create a new new node with
>> meaningfulbuffer.
>>
>>
>>
>> < case 3 >
>> sourcenode.start(0);
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer; // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is the same as case 1
>>
>> < case 4 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the normal case.
>>
>> < case 5 >
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer1;
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound buffer1
>>
>> …
>>
>> sourcenode.buffer = meaningfulbuffer2;
>>
>> sourcenode.start(0); // sound buffer2
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know how that is supposed to work, especially since start() is
>> only allowed to be called once for each AudioBufferSourceNode.  Even if you
>> allowed more than one call, I still don't know how this is supposed to
>> behave.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In spec, nullable buffer is existed which has mono channel silence can
>> help making source muted to AudioBufferSourceNode without stop().
>>
>> If setting buffer or calling start() is allowed more than once,
>> AudioBufferSourceNode can be reused.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any confirmed change about calling start() multiple times?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> However, it also has some issue.
>>
>> “The spec doesn't say, but the buffer attribute of an
>> AudioBufferSourceNode should probably be only settable once.
>>
>> If you've started the source node and change the buffer while the
>> previous buffer is playing, you have no control over when the new source
>> starts.”
>>
>> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/288
>>
>>
>>
>> Please feel free to give your opinion and correct way for Web Audio API.
>>
>>
>>
>> Br,
>>
>> Khno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Received on Monday, 17 March 2014 21:51:20 UTC